The Legendary Chicago Magician Benjamin Barnes

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, My name is Dr. Todd, and I've always loved magic. I love the community, the art form, and the way it brings people together through wonder, laughter, and surprise. This podcast is my chance to share conversations with incredible people who create, perform, and inspire magic so we can all learn, grow, and stay connected to what makes this art so special. This is Magician's Workshop. Benjamin Barnes is a celebrated magician, writer and producer based in Chicago. Known for his smooth, elegant sleight of hand and deep respect for the art of magic, Benjamin has performed across the country and curated shows at some of the most prestigious magic venues, including the Chicago Magic Lounge, where he serves as artistic director. He's also a frequent collaborator to Genie magazine and a passionate advocate for elevating magic as a theatrical art form. Benjamin Barnes, welcome to the Magician's Workshop. [00:01:08] Speaker B: Thank you so much. I'm excited to talk to you. [00:01:12] Speaker A: Thank you so much. [00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I was thrilled to hear from you. I've been aware of your podcast since you started and I know I was honored to have been asked. [00:01:25] Speaker A: I'm so honored to. To have really, really great performers that just talk to and share some of your insight. And. And basically I'm doing this for me, and if anybody else likes it, so be it. I'll put it out there. But if it. And it also, if this helps one more person just pick up a magic book and just decide to learn a trick or two and it makes their lives a little better. I mean, we've. That's a service. [00:01:48] Speaker B: Absolutely, Absolutely. I love that. [00:01:52] Speaker A: So we're going to ask. We're going to go from easy to hard questions. They're all easy for you because it's just stuff you should already know. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:59] Speaker A: Like the first one, which you have to ask. It's a rule. You have to ask every magician. What is your earliest memory of magic? [00:02:05] Speaker B: My earliest memory of magic. My earliest memory of magic is my dad doing a card trick with what I now understand was a Svengali deck. My. My father was a stay at home dad for about two years when I was a kid and he had a deck of TV magic cards. Remember those? Marshall Brody? It was just a Svengali deck. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. [00:02:33] Speaker B: That was the brand name of then when you went to Walgreens to buy them. Yeah. My dad had this Svengali deck and I didn't know what that was when I was five. And. Yeah, it was amazing. [00:02:47] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. What. [00:02:49] Speaker A: When did you. When did you decide. When did you know that this was going to be your career path? [00:02:55] Speaker B: I realized that When I was around 12, I had become interested in magic earlier than that. I first became interested in magic when I was seven. But like a lot of kids, I just thought it was cool, it was fun. I had a magic set called A Couple of Magic Books. It was something just fun to do and I thought was fascinating. But When I was 12, I was at home, my older sister was babysitting me and my younger sister, we're just sort of flipping through the TV stations and we caught the tail end of a David Copperfield special when he escaped from Alcatraz. And yeah, we saw like the. Maybe the first few minutes of that escape. We didn't even see the whole show, but I saw the first minute of when he melted through the bars of the cell. And when I saw that, I just. That was it. I said, I gotta do this. This is incredible. [00:03:47] Speaker A: That's amazing. When did you start performing, like, full on performing? [00:03:54] Speaker B: Well, my first show was when I was 12. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. [00:03:59] Speaker B: So you. [00:03:59] Speaker A: Right away? [00:04:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. You know, my parents got me a catalog for Magic Incorporated, which was my local magic shop owned by Jay Marshall. And, yeah, ordered a few tricks and all of my early shows were free. So I would call up, people say, can I do some magic for you? So I didn't have to do a 45 minute show. I would do like 25 minutes, maybe 30, maybe. But I was just doing the tricks that I had. And because it was free, no one really gave me a lot of grief. If it was 15 minutes, that's awesome. Yeah, there were short shows, but they were the beginning for me. [00:04:39] Speaker A: And where was this? Have you always been based out of Chicago? [00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah, I was born in Chicago and all of my first early shows were on the south side of Chicago, which is where I'm from. But I very quickly started doing magic for orphan orphanages. [00:04:56] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Theatric awards. My dad gave me this idea of calling places that needed magic, that it would be received as a gift. So, yeah, we performed almost every weekend in a pediatric ward for kids who were bound to the hospital or orphanages. Wow. And these places were thrilled at the thought of getting the free magic show. So, yeah, we did that for years. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Wow, that's really, really cool. I would never. That's a great way also to practice and bring joy to others. You get to like the double whammy. [00:05:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And that was it. Yeah, that was, I think, why my dad was so supportive of it because he saw how happy these kids were. And, you know, my dad sacrificed his weekends for, like, Three years. Wow. Yeah. [00:05:47] Speaker A: You were behind the longest running magic variety show in Chicago, and it was called Chicago Magic, which critics called both a love letter to the city's magical roots and a bold step forward. What inspired you to create that? [00:06:02] Speaker B: Well, the inspiration for the show was a magician's name was Eugene Berger, and he had three students. There was myself, Patrick Thomas Murphy, and Robert Charles. And one day, Robert and Patrick were complaining how there were no places to be bad in the city. So Eugene said, well, you should create something like that and call Ben and he'll help you. And so they called me and together we. That's what we did. And the shows initially were invitation only, so we would invite people, but we didn't charge them anything because we knew the shows were terrible. [00:06:51] Speaker A: In what way were they terrible? I think we got to delve down into that. [00:06:55] Speaker B: Well, we didn't have a lot of stage experience, you know, doing these sort of formal stage shows. We just didn't have that. So we did these shows. We would invite our friends, and after a while we discovered people were having fun with these shows. And then we would charge a little bit. And one of the three, Patrick Murphy, he left the show. So we had this hole in the show, and I would invite my friends to come in and perform. And we started charging so that we could perform, pay them, because they were already pretty good, so we had to pay them something. And around the same time, I was invited to perform at the Magic Castle and I started to meet people in California. Then I would bring those people to Chicago. And then I show became a ticketed event and we did it for 12 years. [00:07:49] Speaker A: That's amazing. That is an extremely long time. [00:07:52] Speaker B: Yeah, tell me about it. [00:07:53] Speaker A: Like, yeah, wow. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that. [00:07:55] Speaker A: That sounds exhausting. How many shows were you, like, how many times a week were you performing? [00:08:00] Speaker B: Well, you know what, that show, for the most part was monthly unless we had, like, we produced Max Maven's one man show. And we did that three or four nights that one month. So if we had a show that we knew we could sell tickets to, because that's the big trick when you have a theater show is you have to sell those tickets. When we had a show that we knew we could sell tickets to, we would do several. But for the most part, the show was monthly. [00:08:30] Speaker A: How did you get invited to the the Magic Castle? [00:08:33] Speaker B: When Max came to do his show in Chicago, he literally maybe the week before, was hired to be the entertainment director at the Magic Castle. [00:08:42] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:08:43] Speaker B: So I spent a lot of time with him and at one point he said, you should send me a video. You might be able to do this. So I sent in a video and he got back to me after a year. So it took a year from sending it in. Wow. Get back to me. And now in my current role, I understand why it took so long. But, yeah, he got back to me and I went out there the first time and, yeah, it was a life changing experience. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah. The videos I've seen from the castle that's on my bucket list is to go is to visit there and see how it works. It seems amazing. [00:09:26] Speaker B: I was thinking about it today. It is still the Mecca of magic in the world. And if you love magic, you have to make a visit. [00:09:34] Speaker A: Yeah. It really is something you've got to try to do. Getting in is a different thing altogether. Hopefully some of the friends I've made along the way, I'll be able to weasel my way in somehow. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. I would send you a pass today. Yeah. [00:09:49] Speaker A: All right, good. Well, I think it's more likely that I'm going to be able to get to Chicago. I have a cousin in Chicago. She's big into pinball, so I've been meaning to go out there and visit her. And I wanted to see you on Paige at the Magic Lounge. It seems like an absolutely astounding place. Before I forget, I did want to say, I know that the magic. The Chicago Magic Lounge that you get in through a fake door. Don't want to give it away, but it's a. You walk in through, like a fake laundromat. Have any. Has anyone ever showed up with laundry? [00:10:23] Speaker B: Yes. Wow. [00:10:25] Speaker A: Okay. That's hard to believe, but that sounds like something. [00:10:29] Speaker B: No, in the early days, yeah. People used to do that more. It doesn't happen now, but in the early. The first few years. Yeah. [00:10:37] Speaker A: We have to tell that's brilliant because. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Some of the machines really work. So. Yeah. [00:10:45] Speaker A: Wow. [00:10:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:47] Speaker A: How did Magic Chicago change your perspective about the technical side of magic? [00:10:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. The big things I took away from that is that you need to have a team. You cannot or. I certainly couldn't do that on my own. And when I see magicians going into theatrical spaces, a lot of times when it's not very good, it's because the team is not suited for that type of work. I'm very fortunate now to have a team that is amazing when it comes to that. But I realized early on that you need a team and you need people on that team who have skills that extend beyond the world of magic. You need Someone who is adept at marketing, someone who's adept at graphic design, someone who knows about lights and sound. It makes all the difference. [00:11:43] Speaker A: I guess it did. I did amateur theater, and you couldn't do anything without lighting, I mean, or sound, I mean, without those two, you know, and then knowing where to hit the marks and that. So I could. I can imagine. I mean, this was just a bunch of kids, so it didn't matter as much. But, you know, can you imagine when you're selling tickets, there's a. You know, you have an obligation. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. So, yeah, absolutely. [00:12:07] Speaker A: Did it change the way that you performed your magic? Like, how did it change the way you actually did the effects? [00:12:16] Speaker B: It. For me, the big change was I was doing close up magic almost exclusively before. And when I met Eugene Berger, he was making his living sort of, not sort of. He was the preeminent close up magician in Chicago. So all of my training had been in close up. And when you stand in a stage in front of a big room of people, that changes everything. And everything is a choice when you step on a stage. And I became accustomed to making choices about everything. Where I put a prompt, how I stand, when do I begin speaking, you know, how do I integrate the music into the magic? Those are things I think about all the time now. [00:12:58] Speaker A: Okay, how did you end up meeting Eugene Berger? [00:13:03] Speaker B: When I was in college and I was about to graduate, I wanted to make a living at magic, but I didn't really know what I was doing. And when I was growing up in magic, I had no exposure to the magic world. I never went to magic clubs. I didn't know conventions were a thing. I knew my primary exposure to magic came from books in the library and seeing famous magicians on television. So, you know, David Copperfield, maybe Penn and Teller, but that was about it. And when I was in college, someone gave me a copy of Genie magazine, which just showed me there's this whole world of all these people I've never heard of who seem to be great. And then anyone I saw on TV, I would reach out to. So I saw Jeff McBride on Spanish language television. Just sort of. [00:13:53] Speaker A: I love Jeff. I love watching him on tv. [00:13:56] Speaker B: He was great. He was so, so great. So I wanted to get to know him. So I said to myself, he's a great magician. He's on tv. He must live in Las Vegas. So I called directory, since in Las Vegas and said, can you give me Jeff McBride's number? And they did and called him on the phone and he was in Atlantic City. Performing with Eugene. But his wife told me this. Abby told me this, and she says, here's the phone number to the hotel. Just make sure you call after 1:00, because they sleep late because they do the shows. So I called him in Atlantic City, explained that his wife gave me the number, and we spoke for a long, long time. And by a long time, maybe 40 minutes. Wow. Yeah. And just as I was hanging up the phone, he said, where do you live? I said, I live in Chicago. He says, well, if you live in Chicago, you have to take lessons from Eugene Berger. If you have to sell your furniture, do it. And I didn't know who this guy was, but Jeff gave me the number and I called in. About a week later, Eugene called me and he had me come to his house. And that was the beginning of everything for me. [00:15:12] Speaker A: Wow. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:13] Speaker A: What a legend. And you just, you know it. That is. That is exactly what this podcast is about. It's about reaching out and basically just wanting to learn. And the magic community is the preeminent place to find mentors. And it's just. It's part of the. It's part of the DNA of a magician. [00:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. [00:15:38] Speaker A: So it's. Wow, that's insane. Like, that's. Oh, let me just. I'm just gonna call up one of the. The greatest car manipulators that. That's that living today, like, and I'm just gonna talk to him for 40 minutes then. Oh, yeah. And by the way, he also knows this. The. The. One of the best, closest magicians of all time, with the best, literally the best. The best scripting of anyone you've ever met. Oh, yeah, we're just going to talk to him. Yeah. How did that. How did his mentorship. How did that affect your. Your growth? [00:16:12] Speaker B: It affected everything. Everything I do is informed by the time I spent with him and the lessons I learned. Just to give you an example, when I met Eugene, he was still very active, performing for the public. And Eugene lived in a part of Chicago called the Gold Coast. It's the most affluent part of the city, and he was performing for people throughout the community. Just. He lived an incredible life. Like, it's magical, the life he had in Chicago. But when I met him, he was making part of his living giving magic lessons. I went to meet him. I think he could see that I really loved magic and really wanted to pursue it. He knew I was still in college and didn't have any money, so he said, listen, you. You don't have to pay for these Lessons. You come here as much as you want. You can call me on the phone as much as you want. The only thing you have to promise is that you will practice. Says if you practice, you never gotta pay. And I didn't pay for lessons for years, and I called him on the phone all the time, and he would invite me places with him, gave me access to his world. And, yeah, I mean, he. He taught me various magical techniques, but he taught me an approach to magic, not just the performance of it, but how do you interact in the community of magic. He taught me how to be a good citizen. He taught me how to pass along knowledge. And, yeah, he taught me. He taught me basically how to. How to live the life of a magician. [00:18:02] Speaker A: That's incredible. [00:18:03] Speaker B: Yes, it is. Wow. [00:18:05] Speaker A: All right, we can end it right there. We got. We're good guys, but I take it back. We got to talk about the Chicago Magic Lounge. Can you tell me a little bit of the history of how that came about? [00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. You know, and I wasn't with the Magic Lab when it began. I was still doing magic Chicago. And, yeah, there's a improvisational actor named Joey Cranford who, as a sort of a gag, received a magic set from his wife, and he got into the magic tricks, and one night he had friends over. He. He did some of the tricks for the. For his friends. They loved it. And that really sparked an interest in him to learn more. And he got to meet some local magicians, and long story short, they decided to put on this magic show. And it really caught on, like, went from one night to two nights to three nights. And eventually he got some investment money, and he began to build out the location where we are now. And that was in 2018. So he starts show 2015. 2018. That's when they began construction on the current venue, and that he asked me to come and be a part of it. By that point, I had a long history of producing magic shows and also bringing great magicians from all over the world to Chicago. And they didn't really have connections with the world of magic outside of the city, so they wanted someone who could reach out to essentially anyone and convince them to come to Chicago. [00:19:58] Speaker A: And that kind of goes into my second question is, what is your role as an entertainment director? [00:20:03] Speaker B: Well, the role. There's the role that's on paper, and then there's the role that's not on paper. And the role that's on paper is I book the shows. Anything that makes you clap, smile, gasp, that's what I do. So I hire all of the magicians. I. We have musical directors here, so oftentimes with our shows, we have musicians who add musical, like accents to different moments in a magician's act. So that's my role on paper. My unofficial role is to nurture the community of magic to help it flourish into the future. And I do that in a multitude of ways, most of which I learned when I spent time with Eugene Burger. Yeah. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Wow. Okay. What kind of going along with that? What is the wildest act that you've booked? [00:21:05] Speaker B: That's the wildest act? [00:21:07] Speaker A: Yeah. What is it where you were like, wow, this is. This. This is a choice. [00:21:11] Speaker B: Yeah, this is a choice. I would say there's a. It's a tie. Dan Sperry and Harrison Greenbaum. [00:21:22] Speaker A: Okay. [00:21:23] Speaker B: When you say wild, wild is the word. Both of those performers go to the edge, you know, the edge. And sometimes they go over the edge, but it's. It's been okay. But, yeah, you know, very. Yeah, very, you know, unconventional, to say the least. You know, it's an experience. When you watch those guys. [00:21:50] Speaker A: Yeah. How can you tell if somebody's right for performing at the lounge? How. How. [00:21:58] Speaker B: That's a great question. Because sometimes people are good magicians, but not good for the lounge. A lot of times people think, my job is to determine who is good and who isn't. And that is not my job. My job is to determine who is good for our audience. And I know that our audience comes to us looking to have a great time. And what does that mean? That means they like to laugh, they like to be amazed. They like to engage with the performer sometimes during the show, sometimes in a way that is very off script. And so I look for performers who are a good match to that audience. And sometimes, you know, I also like to challenge the audience by giving them something that is outside of what they came for and so that they get exposed to something sort of exciting and they get a sense of how grandiose magic is. You know, a lot of times when people come to a magic show and our audience is all lay people, and a lot of them have never seen a magic show live before. They think magic is that one thing they saw on tv. And when they come here, they see, oh, magic is many different things. And my job is to hire acts that will deliver an experience that's pleasurable fun, and one that they want that our audience would like to repeat with friends that they bring for the first time upon their return. [00:23:36] Speaker A: If I'm. I'm a guest at The Magic Lounge. Can you take me through what my experience is going to be? [00:23:41] Speaker B: Sure. So the show sell out two to three weeks in advance. So when people show up, a lot of times there's a lot of anticipation because of the way we seat people in the capacity of the building. We will oftentimes, especially on the weekend, have a long line out the front of the building. And the front of the building doesn't look like anything. There's nothing that says this is a theater, that there's magic. So if you're walking by, you see the slides, like, what's going on? But people generally, they come in to the laundromat and they have some fun in there. Then they figure out how to get beyond that and then they go into our performance bar. And we always have a magician at the bar that's working. You don't need a ticket to go into the bar. So you can just kind of come in and experience magic. Even if we're sold out. Then after that you're ushered into a different space. That ultimately leads you into our performance cabaret, which is our big room. And for the first hour there, you see close up magic at your table. And we have six magicians working during what we call our signature show. On average, you see about three of those people. And then after that first hour is up, our MC hits the stage, brings on an opening act that does 20 minutes, then a headline act that does 30. And then after that's over, we have a smaller theater called the 654 Club where 43 people have bought premium tickets, can then see a formal close up show which lasts half an hour. Wow. Once that's over, they either go home or you go back to the bar where oftentimes there's a new magician who is working until anywhere between midnight and two in the morning. [00:25:33] Speaker A: Wow, that sounds absolutely amazing. [00:25:37] Speaker B: It is. It is. [00:25:38] Speaker A: Wow. [00:25:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:39] Speaker A: And I know a little bit of. A little bit of trivia that the 654. Is that. Isn't that Houdini's favorite number? [00:25:47] Speaker B: No. The 654 Club. You know what? Yes. I don't know if it was, but let's say yes. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Okay. Sure. [00:25:53] Speaker B: Why not? [00:25:56] Speaker A: All right. Chris will lie to us. [00:25:58] Speaker B: Yeah, she definitely did. The 654 Club is a fictional nightclub in a story called Sam the Bellhop Bill Malone. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Oh, Sam the Bellhop. [00:26:11] Speaker B: It takes place at the. [00:26:13] Speaker A: Okay, sorry, I knew that. Yeah. [00:26:15] Speaker B: So that's the. That's what's behind the name. [00:26:19] Speaker A: Okay. For anyone who I don't Ever really tip tricks. But if you ever get a chance, if you've never seen Sam the Bellhop. YouTube Sam the Bellhop routine. And I think Leonard Green. Is that Leonard Green that does Bill Malone. Bill Malone. Bill Malone's Sam the Bellhop. It's fantastic. It's a great trick. I don't have the. I don't have the time or the patience for that many false cuts. [00:26:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:47] Speaker A: But it is. I will watch it all day long. [00:26:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:26:51] Speaker A: So. All right. There you go. Okay, that makes way. That actually makes way more sense. I Betrayed Again by Lucy Darling. [00:26:59] Speaker B: Gotta watch out. [00:27:01] Speaker A: Yeah. By the way, Krista Hendricks just came out with some merch, so go. Go to her website, Kristahendricks.com and buy her stuff, if it still exists. Yeah, yeah, There you go. Okay. [00:27:11] Speaker B: I have all of it, so. I know what you mean. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I just. I just. I just bought posters and pins and. Yeah, and it. It came out to 69, so. Nice. Nice. Okay, so I want. I want to move on to Penn and Teller, your Penn and Teller episode. Because I was. I was watching the. The. The. The role that they do before. Before the show, before your act starts, and you said that some techniques are so old that they're new. I thought that was a really cool statement. But can you elucidate on that a little? [00:27:49] Speaker B: It. Yeah, yeah. There. You know, it's funny, and I think about this all the time technique in contemporary sleight of hand magic, especially with cards, now more than ever is performative, you know, people. And by people, I mean magicians, when they get together with other magicians, they want to talk about, let me see this move or show me this move. Show me that move. And even when they do the routines themselves, you get a sense of when they're doing things. And, you know, and in the old days, and by the old days, I mean diverted. And before, sleight of hand was also supposed to be a secret, you know, and, you know, if you read Vernon, for example, he would say his goal was to have a routine with one move in it. You know, it was. It was clandestine. You know, it was. So there's all these techniques, especially from yesteryear, older generations, that people don't even use anymore. They. They're completely forgotten. And I love those techniques. You know, there's some books I don't even talk about because. Completely forgot. And, yeah, there's some techniques that are very, very. Not just old, but completely forgotten. The ones that people remember. A lot of times, they don't do them properly, you know. Yeah, I. Yeah. And when people, magicians, think about technique, they. The way they think about is so small. The same way when magicians think about magic, the way they think about magic is so small. And. Yeah, if you are able to connect with some of. You know, I like to think as the old ways, magic is real interesting and a lot more amazing. I found. I found out, you know, so I know that's very sort of cryptic where. [00:29:47] Speaker A: No, I love. We love cryptic. [00:29:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't mean to be cryptic, but it is cryptic because if you don't know, you don't know. [00:29:54] Speaker A: It's by nature cryptic. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:57] Speaker A: How. What are some ways that you find those older techniques you just keep your eye out for, like a book at a used bookstore or do you. Can you seek out that kind of thing or what's your technique for finding old techniques? [00:30:10] Speaker B: You can fortunately seek a lot of this stuff out. You know, I first sort of started learning about some of these things from my time with Eugene and later with Max Maven. You know, when you were around those guys, they demanded that you know things about the past. You know, if you didn't know things about the past, they were very selective with what they would share with you. So, for example, any routine that I do or that I was taught from Eugene, I had to know where all of it came from. You know, every move, like, who came up this week. And it was about respect. You know, it's just about. No, it's like you have to know because this person, they gave you a gift and you have it. You at least have to know their name. That's what Eugene would say. And then you would read some of these older books. You know, you go back and read Okido on Magic or if you read the Stars of Magic or, you know, some other books. You know, there's just treasures in those books that nobody has kept up with, you know, so. Yeah, I would just. It's not hard to find. You just have to look back a little bit and like, a little bit, you know, just go back to Vernon and Marlon and read the stuff by Eugene and Animan. It's all in there. [00:31:38] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not even hard stuff to find. But we have a short memory and there's a lot of information out there that's garbage, but it dilutes the pool. So that makes sense. The more I'm talking to professional magicians like Paige and that. I mean, she said it right? You, like, get a book, read the books that way, you know, you're you're not just copying somebody, you're making your own stuff. So I'm learning more and more. Books are where it's at there. [00:32:08] Speaker B: Where it's at. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of that come out. It's usually an idea from an old book and. But, you know, you get a download or something like that today, you get one idea for the same price you get a book and you get 4, 40. And in the old days when it was a lot harder to get something published, the quality of what was in the book was so much higher, you know, so, yeah, books are where it's at. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I hear. I hear Vanishing Inc. Has great books. You might have heard of them. Oh, that's a great. That's a great website. I love those guys. Me too. So there. Have you ever had a trick go wrong on stage? Like something really. We're all going to have stuff that goes wrong and sometimes, as you know, like from regular theater, a lot of times people don't know it didn't go wrong. And are you able to. Have you ever had anything go wrong and you were able to recover from it and nobody knew it? [00:33:11] Speaker B: Yes, many times. Because people, they don't know what's coming. What I think is really interesting is when something goes wrong in this, no way to recover. And because I've had situations like that and what I've learned is there's always a way to recover, but it's not the way that you think. Like if, say you drop something and what you were going to produce is now on the floor and it's just there, you can recover from that. You don't get the trick, but you get a joke or you get a moment where you. People see you as a human in a way where they stick with you, you know, even though the trick work, didn't work, what I've sort of discovered is laypeople in the audience, they care a lot less about things working than we do. Assuming it's one. One thing, you know, if your whole show is not working, that's one thing. But if you have a moment in the show with something just is gone. If you have the right attitude, you don't lose the audience. As a matter of fact, they might like you more. You know, it depends on how you handle it. [00:34:25] Speaker A: Wow. Okay, that's. That's actually really good advice. [00:34:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:29] Speaker A: And along that line, what is the hardest magic trick that you feel that you've learned? [00:34:37] Speaker B: The hardest magic trick. See, I don't think in those terms because practice makes everything Easy, you know, if you just keep practicing. It's all like. When I first learned Symphony of the Rings, this magician said to me, like, what was. What's the hardest part of that? Like, none of it. You know, I can just do it, you know, because you can do it. The hardest element to figure out for me when it comes to the performance of magic is just me. You know, it's like, how do I integrate who I am in this effect into something that I can really sell and make special a wonderful. You know, the biggest mystery imagine we have to unravel is who we are, you know, it's not the trick. And that is very difficult. You know, it can take a long, long time, and I'm still working on it almost every day. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Okay, what would you. If you had to. If you had to give your. Do you feel like the person that you are on stage is just you as you are, or you feel like you're playing an exaggerated version of yourself, or do you feel like you're playing somebody completely who's not what you're like at all? [00:35:56] Speaker B: It's me with eight hours of sleep. It's like me with energy. [00:36:04] Speaker A: Okay. [00:36:06] Speaker B: You know, I. I'm doing more and more stuff on stage, and, yeah, I just feel like the best shows are the ones where I'm not even conscious of myself. I'm just in the moment with people and having fun. But I have this whole different approach about magic. I used to think that the material that I was presenting on the stage were the. For the tricks, and I discovered that's not true. The material is the audience. The audience is my material. And what happens between me and them, that's the show. It's like Eugene said in his book Intimate Power. It's one of the first things in the book, he says. The show. He says, it's the relation. It's about creating a relationship in which magical things happen. But the show is the relationship with the audience. And I read that 20 something years ago, but I only started to understand it maybe two years ago, you know, but, yeah, it's. It's the audience. [00:37:08] Speaker A: How important is the opener to your show? [00:37:12] Speaker B: It's hugely important because it does a lot of things all at once unless the audience know whether or not they can relax. Like in my presence of someone who is prepared to lead me through this experience, are they any good? You know, it's. You know, it's. It's really important because that first impression is hard to change it once they have it, you know? So, yeah, it's Important that I think the opening is very, very, very, very important. Yeah, but the opening isn't just the tricks that you do. It's who you are. You know, I. You know, my opening effect is smiling. You know, because that sets up everything. And then once they see I'm a nice, warm, friendly person, I can almost do anything, and it's. [00:38:05] Speaker A: Wow. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:06] Speaker A: Wow. Your open effect is. Is smiling. [00:38:09] Speaker B: That's smiling. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Incredible. [00:38:12] Speaker B: You know, Max's opening was boo. Remember, he said boo. That's his. And he said that was his opener. The opener is the first trick you do. It's in. Eugene said this in the book the Secrets of Restaurant Magic. The opening effect is you, and it's true. [00:38:32] Speaker A: Wow. What is your advice to somebody who wants to start performing? Maybe they stumbled upon this by accident. Now they've even made it this far, and they're like, all right, I want to. I want to do this. Maybe not like, maybe not for a living, but. Or I just want to learn more. What do you. What would you say? What would you. What advice would you give them? [00:38:54] Speaker B: I would say to anyone who wants to pursue magic as a hobby, vocation, whatever, I would say, take your time. You know, there used to be an old line, and whenever you bought these tricks from this company called Royal Magic, at the end of the instruction, it would say, the magician is created one effect at a time. So I would say learn something. Learn it as completely as you can before going on to the next thing. And most importantly is to have fun. Have fun with it, and give yourself a break when things don't go right or things are, you know, harder to learn than you hope they would be, just to, you know, give yourself grace, because you will fail, and failure is not the end of it. Part of the process, and it's actually part of the fun because you learn something at the end of each failure. But just remember, it's fun. It's fun, and just have fun with it and take your time. Don't rush, and learn things thoroughly, as thoroughly as you can. [00:40:06] Speaker A: Wow. I'm so inspired. [00:40:09] Speaker B: That's good, because I'm not trying, so that's good. [00:40:12] Speaker A: You're not a. What? [00:40:13] Speaker B: I'm not trying, so I'm glad. [00:40:15] Speaker A: No, it's. It's good. Well, I think it's. It's your years of training. [00:40:18] Speaker B: You're. [00:40:19] Speaker A: You're honed in. You're working. You know, you're. It's different than somebody who's. Because you do perform at the same time, but. So you're performing, but you're also seeing it from a global perspective of. I also am in charge of making sure that everybody I bring in is going to entertain. It's. You're not just, you know, you're not just looking out for your own act. You're looking out for the, you know, the. Every audience. It's not just your audience. It's every audience. Is your audience. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Do you find that that's kind of more stressful or you just. At this point, you're just so good at it, you know, you're going to be able to get that good show of everybody you bring in? [00:40:56] Speaker B: Uh, I feel confident that it will be that there are times, and I'll talk about this. Maybe I'll talk about it now. I was going to save this till I was done with all this stuff. [00:41:09] Speaker A: I have, like, two questions. So if you want. If you want to hold on to it, you can. [00:41:12] Speaker B: No, no, no. This. [00:41:14] Speaker A: Okay. [00:41:14] Speaker B: 99% of the time. Yeah. I think these people are going to go out there and it's going to be a great time for everyone. But sometimes when I think someone is interesting and is pushing things forward in a new way, I understand that this might not be well received, and I'm actually okay with that because it's really interesting. I'm very selective when I take that approach because my job is to make people happy most of the time, but sometimes I'm willing to take a chance. But I think this performer is going to give something special. [00:41:52] Speaker A: Okay, that's. That's actually. And that's actually a couple of people that I've interviewed say if. And this is kind of an odd thing to see because me being a people pleaser, it's hard. It's a little harder for me to understand that sometimes it's okay if not everybody in the audience is. Has. Gets it. [00:42:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:42:13] Speaker A: It's. Some. You're. Some people are going to be offended. And, And. And I think some people are almost proud of that. That, you know, if. If it's. And how do you feel about that? If. If somebody leaves offended, are you like, you know, hey, that's fine. It happens or. [00:42:27] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, I don't want anyone to necessarily be offended, but I don't need people to love everything. You know, it's like, you think, like, that was weird or that was strange. I don't get what that was. That's okay. You know, because it's funny, you know, we don't expect that when we go to the theater. There are things that make us Cry. That make us feel all different kinds of emotions. But with magic, everyone's supposed to be smiling. And it's like, why? You know, that's. I always feel like if everyone loves everything, then it's probably a little too pedestrian. So. So, yeah, I don't want to offend anybody, but I do want to challenge people's conceptions of what they think magic is. And, okay, they think what makes magic interesting because people have such limited experience with magic, and part of the job is just to expose you to everything. It can be as much as I can. [00:43:33] Speaker A: That's so cool. What is your favorite magic book? I know you probably. This may be hard to distill down because you're the connoisseur of magic books, but if you had to pick one book you could take with you on a desert island, what would it be? [00:43:49] Speaker B: One book would be Greater Magic. Greater Magic. If you read just the this, there's a part of the great magic called the procession. If that's the only thing you read, it will change your life. And it's not even a trick. It will literally change your life. And then the book is filled. It's like 900 pages. It's huge. And it's kind of magic and a lot of car magic. If you like card tricks, you're great. You're done. [00:44:21] Speaker A: You're set. Good. [00:44:22] Speaker B: But no greater magic. If I could only pick one, it would be greater magic. [00:44:29] Speaker A: And who. Who wrote Greater Magic? [00:44:31] Speaker B: Well, Greater Magic. John Northern Hilliard compiled all of this material over his. His life. And. Yeah, so it's lots of different people, but John Northern. Wow. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Okay. [00:44:46] Speaker B: He's credited as the author, but many different people's material. [00:44:50] Speaker A: I love it. So, last question. Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give a young Benjamin Barnes? [00:44:58] Speaker B: The advice I would give a young me is don't be afraid to just go for it. The big lesson of my life is all the dreams you have are going to come true if you have the courage to pursue them. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to wish. Just go for it. It's going to work out. And I think that's true of most people. If they have the courage to pursue their dream, it's almost inevitable. So that's the advice I would give myself. Don't be afraid. Just do it. Wow. [00:45:43] Speaker A: Like, this has been the greatest. Like, I'm. I'm got chills. [00:45:48] Speaker B: Okay, good. [00:45:50] Speaker A: So that's all the time we have for today's episode. Benjamin Barnes. Thank you so much. For your time. I really appreciate you taking your time to sit down with us and tell us your story. How can people see you perform? [00:46:01] Speaker B: They can see me perform. Chicago Magic Lounge. I'm there when I'm in Chicago. Almost every night I'm in Chicago, I'm at the Chicago Magic Lounge. As a matter of fact, I'll be there tonight. I'm up here at the Magic Castle one to two times a year and then just keep an eye out. I pop up all over the country, so keep an eye out and find me. Usually put things on Instagram too, so. [00:46:28] Speaker A: Make sure you check them out. Give them a like. And to anyone listening, if you like what we're doing here, please like and subscribe on YouTube so you can watch us in glorious video and trust me, you want to see us in glorious video. And follow and rate the podcast so we can spread the word that magic is for everyone. I'm Dr. Todd. This was Magicians Workshop and we will see you next time. [00:46:47] Speaker B: Thank you. Magic.