Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, My name is Dr. Todd and I have always loved magic. This is Magician's Workshop.
Jonah Babbins is the magician who makes magic make sense. Known for his razor sharp sleight of hand and quick wit, Jonah blends modern magic with deep understanding of performance and psychology. As the co host of the popular Discourse and Magic podcast, he's interviewed the biggest names in the industry while championing the next generation of magicians. Whether he's on stage or behind the mic, Jonah's mission is clear. Elevate the art of magic and have a blast doing it. Jonah, welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Dude, what an intro was that? You were Chachi Beatty.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: A little bit of both, A little bit of, a little bit of chatgpt, A little bit of Todd.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: I had a hunch because I. It has been four years since I've been the co host. I'm the only host of the podcast.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Oh, sorry, I'll edit that out.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: No, it doesn't matter to me.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: I always, I just assume your other, your other, your, your host is the person you're interviewing, right?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: No, no, no, he. Oh, I guess that's, that makes sense. I mean, I don't know what that's, that's what a host means, but I guess we're co hosting this thing right now, you know?
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah, man. Well, appreciate it. Happy to be here. Pumped, pumped to, to chat and excited about all that you're working on right now. It was a really cool, really cool podcast. Awesome intro and I'm excited to chat.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you. Well, I'm excited to have you on because your podcast is actually a great service to the magic community. I was saying we have a good dynamic because you, you really, I like to encourage people to get started in magic and you're, you then take that ball and then take it, take people to the next level. So I really like, I like your mastermind, I like your podcast, I like your Toronto Magic Company is really cool. So just really cool.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: Thank you, I appreciate it. You know, it's funny, when I started the discourse in Magic podcast, it was kind of the same vibe as you starting this, which was I was just like, I like magic. For me it was, it wasn't. When it started, it wasn't about business or anything like that. Like, when it started I was like, you know, I love magic and I was very fortunate in Toronto that I was just surrounded by so many magicians. So we were able to talk a lot about magic theory, like the why, you know, like. And I Just felt like we were being inundated by tricks everywhere. At the time, it was Vanishing Inc. Illusionist Theory 11. It was everywhere. Yeah. And I was like, no one's talking about the theory and the philosophy. And since, obviously the podcast has changed and morphed and sort of figured itself out as being something a little bit different. But originally it was kind of like, kind of the same idea. I was like, hey, man, like, I just want to chat with the best in the world. And I learned some lessons along the way and recorded some episodes that were philosophical and useless and don't exist anymore. But I've also, you know, interviewed some amazing cats, so love what you're doing here. Really exciting. And thanks for. Thanks for having me on.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Thank you.
So let's get started. Talk. Let's talk about you. I want to mine your brain for all those juicy bits of things that you might. We might have missed. So we get all the good. All the goodies out of there. Like a pinata.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Let's get some pinata goodies.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: What's your earliest memory of magic?
[00:03:20] Speaker B: I got into magic because my uncle did delights. So delights for anybody that doesn't know, are those light up? Well, I won't say what it is, but you're holding. I don't know if you expose.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: There's a light. I don't normally. Just because it's kind of fun. Yeah, it's. Yeah, you could buy them. They're cheap.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I mean, I already explained what it's called, so people can Google it, but you're holding a light in your hand. You're throwing it between your hands. And so my uncle used to do that, like, family functions, and he just liked magic. He would travel a lot. He would pick up magic. And it's funny because there's like 20 nieces and nephews on that side of the family, and I was the one, the only one out of all of them that got hooked. So I used to think that this is just a bit of a tangent on this. I'm gonna ramble.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: We love tangents. No, no, keep going. I got all that.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: I used to think that getting into magic was about this key story or key moment where you see magic early on, and then, like, you're screwed. That's it, you know? And I often have asked people on the podcast what. How they got into magic. But what I've since come to realize is that not every kid or young person or whatever gets hooked on magic. You need a certain type of brain chemistry or thinking Style or whatever. And I don't know exactly what that is yet, but, but when the person with that sort of analytic creative thinking style, when they see magic, then they're screwed and, you know, they're, they're hooked forever. So for me, it was my uncle doing delights. And there was a lot of other experiences from there, but that was the first magic memory. I brought him in for show and tell for like kindergarten. I was like, check out this guy, he does magic tricks. But he was like, he did uncle magic. Like, I don't even know if he did anything else other than just the delights. Like, he just loved it. And, and, and I got, I got obsessed.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: Cool. Yeah, I can understand. It does seem like magicians have a very similar, similar brain chemistry. When you get in a room, it's. Yeah, there's something going on.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: It is, but it's something, something about the way we all think or are or, and, and I don't, I don't know enough about psychology to say with a nature or nurture or this or that or if it's, is created or if it exists, I don't know. But I just know if you're, I think if you're a certain type of thinker or you're thinking a certain type of way and you see magic, then you know, you got hooked.
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Have you always done magic professionally?
[00:05:56] Speaker B: I mean, I've never had a real job. I went to school for math.
I have a degree in pure math. I was a camp counselor slash magician at a camp. And other than that, I've never had a real job. I did some odd and end things in university. Like, honestly, I sat in a, I sat in a real estate office and I couldn't even answer people's questions. I didn't know anything about the building they would come in. I'd be like, yeah, totally, that'll make sense. I don't know anything. Give me your card and I'll have the guy do it. So they literally paid me, like, do my homework in a real estate office and then when someone came in to pause and like, you know, take, get their info.
But other than that, I've never had a real job. So you could say I've always done magic professionally. But I did some gigs when I was younger. I did some gigs in high school.
I started my summer camp tour, which maybe we'll talk about at the end of high school and into university. And then after university I went all in on performing, started the Toronto Magic Company to produce public shows with Ben and started the podcast. So yes, I've always done it professionally.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: When did you.
So you. You. Pretty much. I was going to ask you about the history of the Toronto Magic Company. What made you official?
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it was. It's sort of an interesting moment because I know you interviewed Ben already. I don't know what he said about me. It was probably mean or whatever, but.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: When it was mostly about the cat.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: But yeah, that makes sense.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: When Margaret Catwood, when. And I. Him and I met when I. At a Jewish summer camp when I was like 12 or something. And then we sort of continue to connect when we both went to the magic camp, the Canadian magic camp, Sorcerer Safari.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: But that sounds awesome.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: Yeah, but he was always my like senior. Like he was 10 years older than me. So when I met him at that original summer camp, he was a counselor and I was a camper at the magic camp. I went from being a camper and he was a counselor to. I remember I was his cit, which stands for Counselor in Training. So I was. His CIT was like the. The 16 year old that gets to like do all the stuff the council doesn't want to. And I remember him leaving a voicemail on my parents answering machines being like, it turns out Jonah's my cat. I tried to trade him for a turkey sandwich, but they said no. So I guess I'm stuck with them just being cute and coy or whatever. Then we were both counselors at the same time, but it was always 10 years older than me. And then when I graduated university, I really didn't want to do math, so I started going all in on magic, which was starting the podcast. And then also Ben and I were hanging out a lot. And it was his sort of impetus based on whatever life and drama and whatever that he had in his life to start producing public shows in Toronto. And bunch of magicians would hang out and get together, but I just kind of rolled up my sleeves and did it. Him and I were spending multiple days a week together working on magic and jamming and then he would launch a show and I would help him do this and be there, whatever. And over the course of like a year, ish, plus or minus of us basically doing shows together. When we launched the Toronto Magic Company, it was kind of like day of. We had like a. Is this a 50, 50 business thing? You know, like, is that what this is? And they were like, no, I guess it is. And then we started it to produce public shows. Now we don't really produce public shows anymore, but the Toronto Magic Company still is thriving or not? Not still is thriving, now is thriving. But originally it started because we were producing public shows all over Toronto. A magic open mic night, which was a pretty new idea at the time. At the time, a lot of the magic open mic nights that maybe you've heard of. Now I'm not taking credit.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: I'm from Southern Maryland. I've heard of none of this. Well, that sounds insane.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: I know that the Boston Magic Lab got it from us. They're a great, amazing group out of Boston and there's a couple of other like magic venues and things that sort of have the informal night where it's an open mic night for magicians. So we were one of the first, if not the first to do it. It was a pretty new idea. It was called the Newest Trick in the book and we did it once monthly and then it ended up being weekly. And then we had like a signature show in Toronto which was called Tricks in the Six. The six is a nickname for Toronto. If you know Drake. Don't worry. No one understood that either. So they didn't.
People were like, what is this show? Tricks in the Tricks and Sticks. And so we had to change that.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: Where I live we call it Tricks in the Sticks. I'll be onto something.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: That is another one. But so no, we, we started producing public shows.
Newest trick in the book, Tricks in the Six. We made the Art of Magic. We did a variety of other shows and it sort of started as my full fledged, full steam ahead. I'm going to become a professional magician. I don't know how, I don't know whether it's going to be a podcast or a producing shows or gigging or whatever. One of these things is what it's going to be to. Let's, let's try it all.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: I remember talking to Ben. He likes to do a lot of the performance. How much of the performance versus how much of like the bookkeeping and the, the, and the, the, the background stuff do you end up doing?
[00:11:16] Speaker B: Well, I wouldn't say that I do bookkeeping. It's so funny.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: I don't mean it that way, but.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: No, no, but it's so funny. You know, when you think of like running a magic business, if you've never like run a full fledged business, you're like, what else is there? Bookkeeping, like what is it that, what, what is it that happens? So I still perform quite a bit, I think in general. I do about 40% of the shows. Ben does 60 and that's prior. Like I Do the sales calls. We have a team. I'm an accountant. He does a bookkeeping. I have an assistant who does emails and scheduling and following up for money and things. I do strategy and sales calls and things like that. Um, predominantly, I book Ben out more. If I want to stop booking him out, I'll just choose my name, you know, like. And I'm saying that silly, but I.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Hope you hold that over his head.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, I do. You know, he's like. He's like, I did so many gigs this month. I'm like, because I pitched you, man. You know, like, you didn't do nothing.
So I book him about 60% of the time, and that's predominantly because I'm managing the business part. I also run the podcast. I also coach magicians. I also. Based on how I coach magicians, I also travel a lot to go and spend some time with them. So I'm just away a lot, and I'm working on a lot of different other things. So in the way our business sort of works, the way that we keep things even, is that he does the lion's share of the gig. So it. During the general year, it's closer to, like, 80% him. Like, the ones that are me is either people that request me specifically or if he's booked, something like that. But then when November and December comes around, we're just booked completely solid, so it's both of us. So it ends up being 60, 40, you know, over the course of the. Over the course of the year, and. And who knows how that'll change in the future. But right now, I still do a lot of shows. I still do about 80 to 100 gigs a year, and he's doing 120 or 140 or whatever. I don't know if any of that math added up, but it makes sense.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's. That's bookkeeping math. There you go. That's statistics. Lying with numbers.
So what?
Basically, you kind of jumped on the podcast train pretty early.
And so how many years have you been doing the podcast for?
[00:13:36] Speaker B: Podcast is nine years old. It started in 2016, and I started it with Tyler Williams, who is still a great friend of mine, but is just not a magician anymore. He sort of, you know, ran away to do other things. And. Yeah, we. When we started it, there wasn't a lot of podcasts in magic. There's more now, but still not a lot.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: There's five more.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: No, there's. There's, you know, like I told you sort of before we started recording, A lot of magicians start podcasts.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: So there is a giant graveyard. There's a statistic across all of podcasting. It's like 90 of podcasts don't make it past their 10th episode.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: I heard that. That's crazy. Yeah.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: So, which makes sense. Like, you know, it is a. It's a tough thing to do. It's not, like, physically hard. Like, I mean, we're just chatting online and then it'll be uploaded. So it's not, like, physically hard, but there's a lot of steps. There's editing and then it's, you know, doesn't bring in the fame and fortune that maybe you think it does. It's an audio first thing. So I know you started podcasting in 2024, 2025, which means you're sort of, you know, about YouTube and Reels and stuff like that, which has helped for your reach. But when I started, that didn't exist. There was no real. Nobody was uploading a video interview of a podcast on YouTube. It didn't make any sense.
I have, since I have a lot of opinions about that, so we can chat more about it. But in general, podcasting used to be this, like, impossible thing to scale because you can't comment on a podcast. You can't. So a lot of people start a podcast, realize that impossible to get listeners. No one finds out about it. No one cares. No one knows. There's nowhere to comment, there's nowhere to share. And then they're like, okay, whatever, I give up. You know, I'm going to go back to whatever I was doing. I just. For whatever reason, probably my.
Probably more. More a negative on me than a positive, is that I just like. I like doing stuff, you know, I don't like stopping doing stuff. Like, there was a lot of moments in there where I was like, I mean, I get the idea. I've interviewed everyone. I kind of know what they have to say. Like, there's. I'm not going to learn that much more. But I still keep doing it. I've just changed the interview cadence and schedule and a couple other things to work more with my schedule. But, yeah, man, since 2016, that it's been going on.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: That's crazy. That's a huge achievement. I mean, that's a huge achievement for any. Any medium to keep going because. Well, first of all, the. The editing must have been horrifying in 2016, I edited it for five years.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: Or four years until I hired an editor, and then I've never looked back and now if you hand audio file, I'll say, don't. I don't. I don't know anything, you know, because it would take me like eight hours to edit a one hour podcast and oh yeah, and then people would send me a message and be like, the volume's too high or like, what? I don't know anything, man. And again, then it was harder to edit now. Now like you just give it to an AI, spit out the result and like, whatever. I mean, they're still editing for content.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: But like, yeah, kind of editing on transcript is 10 times easier.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: It's crazy. You can do Descript.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: I assume you've heard of and yeah, Riverside and Descript. I like Descript. Turn this audio into a blog if you want. I mean, it's insane.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Script is amazing. So it used to be hard. I used to do it inside of a crappy audio editing program.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: I don't know how you could even.
That's. That would have made me fail. There's no way I could spend that much time.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: It was crazy. It was brutal. And I did it for a really long time until I hired an editor that was like 30 bucks or something. And they edit a podcast and I had 10 more hours available and they did a better job and it took them two hours to do. And I was like, whoa. So in that one moment I learned hiring, which has been something that I've really benefited from learning through my whole career. But yeah, I used to edit it all myself. And then now.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: So over the years, hosting discourse and magic, which guest changed your mind about something big?
[00:17:38] Speaker B: I mean, look, I'm going to give a lame answer and you can choose to edit it out or not, but the way the podcast, the way the podcast works secretly behind the scenes is I just interview whoever I'm interested in at that moment.
Do people like tectonic shift the way that I think about something? Rarely. You know, like some episodes I get off and I'm like, that was unbelievable because someone brought the heat and did an amazing job. And sometimes I get off an episode, I'm like, great. You know, that was lovely. There's people who I love and who did, who went above and beyond and crushed it. But the reason I mentioned that I sort of follow my passion is like, I would say about three quarters of the time. My favorite episode is the most recent one that I did. And it's because it's the thing that I am most recently interested in. And the topics that I asked them are the things that are on the tip of my mind in that moment. And I picked someone who knows the most about that subject. So in general, they blow my mind, you know about it. So, no, I don't have a specific person I can tell you. There's people that were amazing. Teller was amazing, Darren Brown was amazing, Tamaris was amazing, David Gerard was amazing. And I have hundreds more people that were just like stupendous and blew my mind. But it's hard for me right now thinking about 380 episodes or whatever the. Like one person who blew my mind.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, and you've had what, a quarter of a million downloads or now?
[00:19:22] Speaker B: About a million.
[00:19:23] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: Once upon a time it was quarter million, then a half a million, and now it's. It's hard to know because it's across all these platforms. Some don't, but it's at least 8 or 900,000 for sure. But it's probably closer to a million.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: That's insane. How did you grow your audience? Asking for a friend?
[00:19:44] Speaker B: I didn't like, you know, I'm. If I was smarter, which I'm not, I would have in my whole life and career done less things. So like, you know, it would have been brighter for me to like promote the living heck out of it. And overall, I think my audience has grown because I built an email list. Big lesson, important thing to do.
I posted on social sometimes, most often, basically every episode I think I've posted about on social. At one point, again on Instagram, the thing was like these waveform clips now, nobody, nobody watches that nobody cares about anymore. But at the time I had guy editing my podcast. Another guy that was taking highlighted moments and turning them into clips and, and you know, putting them out in general. Just the collaboration with people and they share it and they spread the word, brings people my way.
But yeah, I mean, I don't know if like a brilliant tactic that I use to promote it. I'm just loud and everywhere and people hear about me and that's it. You know, I don't, I don't have a brilliant tactic. People hear about me from random places. Every episode is put out on the page as somewhat like a blog. So a lot of times people are going down the rabbit hol of a specific magician and they find an interview and then they go and get pumped.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Yeah, you, I mean, you ended up on my, my.
You ended up on my feed a few times just, just randomly because of your. You're everywhere. You know, your podcast in Toronto, Magic Co. And, and Penn and Teller and, you know, this and that. And then you're just. You just show up. And then Mastermind showed up.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Yeah, people hear about me. So, uh, I don't know. Like, if I was smarter, I'd have a better. As someone whose job is marketing and I help you with marketing, you'd think I'd have a better answer. But by the time I got to the point where I had to start thinking about marketing, there was a point. Let me. Let me say this another way. There was a point where I really like who listens and how many people listen to the podcast. At some point, I just went, I don't care. I don't care. I used to check those metrics all the time. I used to compare this episode to that episode. I used to. Whatever. I make money performing, I make money coaching magicians. I literally don't care how many people listen to the podcast. I put in an episode. If you listen to it eight years later or I don't care if people discover this whenever they want. I'm pumped for them. I am grateful that people love it and they listen to it. But at some point, the podcast is for me. Like, it's for me to interview all of these magicians. It is my gift back to the magic community that can always be like, hey, I interviewed this guy. Da, da. And it's free, so go and listen to it. It's 100% free. Go enjoy it. Like it's there.
People find out about the Mastermind through it. So I have just. And when you podcast enough, you know that podcasting is one of the only forms of content creations off of YouTube that metrics are invisible.
Nobody knows how many people listen to it. So because there's no vanity metrics, nobody is scoping out and saying, is this good based on. Nobody knows. You don't know if there's a hundred people listening or 10,000 people listening. You have no idea. So because of that, I'm not chasing the number. Like, I really don't care. I'm not a big fan of vanity metrics in general. You know, Like, I run lovely businesses that work very well without having hundreds of thousands of followers, you know, like, so I just promoting it at one point was a huge priority. I was doing every trick in the book that I could do. And then at some point, I was just like, whatever, I'm going to post it. I'm going to get loud. When an episode comes out, I'll tell people I'll put it out. But, like, whatever, you know? So I don't have a good answer for how I've promoted it. Just people. People find out, I guess.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. And especially after nine years. I mean, it's. It's. You know, you have this huge back.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: I'll tell you a totally nonsense tangent story.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Yes, please.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: And if this story is inappropriate, you can cut it. Okay. Ben met this magician once who did this trick where he says, I'm gonna read your palm. But then he says, I'm gonna read your nuts. He's got walnuts. And I forget what the whole joke is, but then he cracks open the walnuts, and inside of it is a condom. And he's got some joke. I don't know what the joke. Some punchline, right? So Ben's like, where do you get. Like, how do you get condoms in a walnut? And he goes, there's this guy out in. I forget where. Insert. Some farm somewhere. There's a guy in Wisconsin or whatever that puts condoms in walnuts. And he sells them by the 50, and they're $2 each. So Ben finds this guy and he calls him up and he goes, hey, man, you sell batches of 50 walnuts with condoms in it? This guy's like, yeah. And Ben goes, I gotta ask, like, why. Like, why are people buying these things? Like, where are they coming from? The guy goes, I don't know. People buy them. People buy them. And that. I love that story because it's just so funny. You just find a market for it. But that's how I feel about my podcast.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: Is that. Is that real?
[00:25:04] Speaker B: That's a real story. I may be getting some details. Wrongly, it wasn't Wisconsin or wasn't Ben.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: I know exactly how to do that. I do that. Ringing walnut. You just. But I don't know how. How would you get a condom in there?
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Some guy does it. But that's how I feel about the podcast is how do more people listen to it? I don't know. People find it. People love it. I post about it. I. I don't know. I don't know. People buy them. There's the. There's the quote. You can use that.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: I don't know. People buy them.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: People buy condom in a walnut.
[00:25:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: Jeez. Okay, well, I was going to ask, like, how do you balance performing, running, business coaching, and podcasting? Like, when do you sleep? Like, why are you awake right now?
[00:25:41] Speaker B: I don't. I don't sleep. How do I balance it all systems, team, you know, work like that. That's it. Like, I mean, I do work a lot, and I Used to feel really guilty about working a lot. And then I found. I don't know if you know who Alex Hormozi is. He's a big business guru, and he basically, like, you know, all these people talking about work, life balance and all that, which is totally important. And I totally agree with. But he was like, stop beating yourself up if the way you would choose to spend your day, given your choice, is to do all the projects that you're working on. And I'm like, I guess, yeah, I shouldn't beat myself up over this. So how do I find time for it? I work a lot. Like, I'm at my computer doing work a lot. I do a lot of calls. I have team. I have someone who edits the podcast. I have a person who emails and follows up with clients and puts stuff in the calendar and chases invoices. I have software and tools and tech and things like that to help things move faster. I have an accountant and a bookkeeper. I have a graphics and video person. I have so team, you know, I have an assistant who sends all these emails and stuff like that. So, like, the short answer is team and software. And that's one of the things in the mastermind that I help magicians do to scale their businesses, make sure that they have team and software and work life balance in place. But, like, yeah, I mean, I would love to say that I have this brilliant system that has me only working 10 hours away. No, man, I work really hard all the time, a lot, and I'm constantly juggling. And that's why the podcast comes out every week, except for the weeks that it didn't, because I was away for 10 days and I didn't have my mic, and I didn't really want to record a shitty episode with my phone or my computer, audio or whatever. So I'm like, okay, it'll wait another week. Like. Like, there's. People used to email me and be like, is everything okay? An episode didn't come out this Thursday because it would be. It was like six years of every Thursday, right? So people would ask if I'm okay. And then now people understand that I'm. I run a lot of things. I do a lot of things.
[00:27:40] Speaker A: So, yeah, that's actually a perfect segue to talk about your Mastermind program, which I really wanted to get into because I think it's such a. A brilliant idea. And what I like about it is that you've got the. You've got the proof. You know what I mean? Like, that's the Big thing. If you were going to offer a service, you better be able to back it up, of course, because there's so many people trying to sell courses on Instagram and Facebook and, and, but they, all they're doing is they're just taking something that already exists, repackaging it and getting you to pay them. And they're not really. They don't have the goods. You've got, you've got the, the secret sauce to back it up. Right. I mean, so I wanted to pivot to your coaching program because, you know, I. First of all, what, what, at what level should I be looking for you as a coach? Like, because right now I'm a hobbyist. I'm not going to be there for a while. What level of magician should be looking for this?
[00:28:35] Speaker B: So, first of all, thank you about the mention of the goods. I'm very happy and pumped that I have so many success stories of names that are household names, by the way, there's lots of magicians that, you know, whose magic is awesome, whose promo looks great, who are not full time and they would love to be full time and they're working on it. So I'm happy that I've got to help a lot of those people. But just, you know, something to. Something to remember that, like, some of the magicians that we know and love never really made a career out of performing. Maybe they did this or did that or whatever.
When should you start seeking my help? So I have two answers to the question. I have two different programs. One is called the Gigs program, which is to help magicians start, and that is basically to help people get to 3 to 5k a month. That's what the point of it is.
[00:29:22] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Wow.
[00:29:23] Speaker B: And then I have another program which is the mastermind, and that's helping magicians that are doing already about 3 to 5k a month, call it minimum 25k a year.
Can't really go lower than that because I, first of all, I need you to have the resources. Like I need you to already have a website and already have a show and already have. But on top of that, we're going to do things that cost money. Cost money to run ads, cost money to work with me, cost money to hire a videographer, cost money to tweak your website, cost money. Things are gonna cost money. So if someone is 10k a year into their magic business, I, I don't want them to go into the negative to make right. That's not like we want the numbers to grow.
Here's the Reason I say two answers for you every now and then. I run the Gigs program. Like other gigs program is basically open enrollment and the Mastermind is open enrollment. And then every now and again, I just go think I'm gonna close the door to the Gigs program. And the reason why is because first of all, a lot of the people that join it are awesome and they're amazing and I love them. So if you're on the Gigs program, you're listening to this, I love you. Okay? You're great, and I'm glad we can be helping you. The reason I sometimes close it is because the Mastermind is a community of people helping each other and a bunch of like minded people really serving and helping each other. And then the Gigs program is a course where I help a bunch of people. And if you can imagine in the world of magicians who are starting, the ones who've never done a gig, the ones who've done 10k a year, the ones doing 20, whatever, some of them are serious and they really want the help and they show up and they do the work and some of them are not. And I always use the example of if you're a Marvel fan. Are you a Marvel fan?
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Okay, so you know when I'm gonna get all the names of stuff wrong?
[00:31:12] Speaker A: Oh, that's, that's fine.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: You know in Dr. Strange, when he, before all the, all the magicy stuff, you know, he's. There's this client that wants him to do like a surgery on him and his wife and he's declining and his wife or girlfriend or whatever is like, I know why you're saying no. He's like, why? And she's like, because you, because this is a hard case and you don't want to mess with your perfect record.
And he's like, yeah, you got me. Right. That's sometimes how I feel with the Gigs program, which is that if one in three people doesn't put in the work and doesn't show up to the meetings and doesn't implement stuff, well, then my perfect record goes down. You know, like with the Mastermind, I have a basically perfect record. I mean, like 9.5 out of every 10 people in it are thrilled and their business is bigger and it's huge. And like, really, like, as you mentioned, like, my record in it is amazing. Why? Because these people are serious. They're doing the work. They have a community of people that are helping them. And then a lot of the people in the gigs program are sometimes hoping that they press a magic Button and it just, you know, in the work and whatever. So you heard it here first. I'm probably in about. In the next month and a half or so, going to announce the last cohort of the Gigs program for a while. And I'll probably. I did this a couple years ago. I closed it down for about a year and a half to just sort of focus my effort on the Mastermind. If you're listening to this and you're like, I really want Jonah's help getting to 3 to 5k a month, please reach out now, because in about mid May, when I finish the Mastermind Summit that's happening at the end of April, mid May, I'm going to say, hey, last cohort for a while for the Gigs program. I'll help you guys all the way to the end of the year. I'll give you all these bonuses and all this stuff as a thank you for being a part of this last cohort. Because I'm going to close the doors and make sure all the gigs people that want to win, win and focus my effort on, like, me helping people in the Gigs program does me benefit because it makes me Mastermind members. Like, when someone's business is doing 10k and then after they work with me for three months, it's doing 3k a month, I'm like, you know what? You'd be perfect for the best thing I've ever made, which is this amazing community of amazing people. So mid May or stuff, when I announced shutting it down, I'm just gonna focus on helping all those gigs guys that want to help, you know, get to Mastermind levels and grow their business in a way they want. And I'm just going to focus the rest of my effort on the Mastermind and the community there, because it's. It's the winners, right? It's a group full of magicians doing 50, 1001-502002-50300, 350k a year doing magic, which is insane.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: That is insane.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: It's insane. Yeah, of course it's insane.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: So, like, it's bananas.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: But the most important thing is that the product is the people. So I am so picky about who gets in the Mastermind, because if I wouldn't have dinner with you, if I don't want to spend two hours sitting across the table with you, I sure as hell don't want to force you on other members or, you know, chat with you every week or, you know, you know, have you a member of this community. So I'm very Picky with the mastermind.
And so with the gigs program. I'm not picky. If you want help, I can help you. Here it is. But I'm closing the door. I know there's a bit of a ramble.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: No, that's okay. Is actually this, this. This resonates with me. And I have a little story of my own. My dad's a dentist. I'm a dentist. He had a very small practice, and he had this professional person come in. She comes in, she says, hey, give me $10,000 and I'll spend a weekend with you. And I guarantee I'll, you know, and we'll basically fix you up so you'll be the most successful dentist in the world. So he paid the money that he did not have. This was back in late 80s, early 90s. It was a significantly more money than it is now. He does literally everything she says. In fact, the. The staff say, we're not going to do that. He fires all the staff because they said, we're just not going to do this. And it wasn't like asking for much. No, I was just like, hey, can you do like this one thing?
[00:35:21] Speaker B: These notes, send these emails?
[00:35:23] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. It's like, no, we don't want to do that. Was like, all right, well, then you have to go. Started all completely over again. Became, within a couple of years, became the most successful dentist probably in the state of Maryland. And now the dentists that work at our office, myself included, are in the top 1% of dentists. And it's just you, you find the expert, you listen to the expert, you put in the work and you have. The difference is you have all of the. You, You've proven it.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: So people, if. You know what I said in the conversation with Eric Tate, like, if you come and sniff my butt and go look at all my interviews and not interviews, all the, all the testimonials and all like that. Like, it's undeniable. And I don't mean that to pump my own tires. I just mean that to say sort of exactly what you're saying, which is like, when someone's selling a product, like, you know, you kind of just need to make sure that they can do what they say they can do. And always you're taking a risk. Like, even when you're hiring a magician for your event, you're like, is this guy gonna suck? Well, it's like, so what does a magician need to do? Well, they need lots of testimonials and lots of proof and lots of examples and Lots of happy clients and lots of references. And if they have all of those things, then the client's like, you know what I think? Think it's worth taking the risk on this guy? He's going to rock. Same thing with hiring someone to work on your business. Like, I know I sound like a get rich quick scheme. Trust me, if I wanted. If I wanted to help people get rich, magic would not be the vehicle that I would choose.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Yeah, you don't. You don't get in that for a quick buck.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: No. However, I do have a pretty great track record because I.
I've seen it. I've seen it all. I've seen what it all is. So I know sort of what it is that people need and what mistakes everyone's making and, and what things they should double down on and, and so on.
[00:37:12] Speaker A: When you started, how did you know? When you first started coaching, what, and you didn't have the evidence, how did you know that you could do it?
[00:37:20] Speaker B: Awesome question, and I am going to answer with a metaphor or not a metaphor. I'm going to answer with using magic as an example, because there's a lot of magicians listening to this who are amateur magicians or hobbyists, and they're trying to get gigs and they're like, how do I convince someone that I can go and do magic at their event when I have no photos, no videos, no testimonials, no proof? And now I'm going to say it's $1,000 to get me to come and do magic at your event. Well, maybe one or two or three people that know you are going to do it, but other than that, it's not going to work. So this is like a classic business chicken and egg problem, right? Like, I want to do this thing, but I don't have any proof that I can do this thing.
You know, what do I do here? So I give you the answer for magic, and then I'll tell you sort of my story. So the answer for magic is be free or cheap.
Very, very free or very, very cheap. Your currency is proof, so don't give me any money, but I need you to bring a photographer to the event. I cost $200, but I'm giving all of that money to a photographer and then an additional $200.
Here's the deal. I'll perform at your event for free with the catch that you give me a 100% honest review afterwards. If you hated it, that's the review. If you loved it, that's the review. Is that a fair Deal. Do that for six months and watch your proof appear.
Watch all of the things that you have appear, and eventually you'll be able to charge some money and you still get more. Even now, where I am in the game right now, proof is still the currency, but at least I have enough proof that I can make a living doing it. So the answer for magic is be free or cheap. Trade work for free. Trade your work for the proof that you need to go to the next level.
I was in a slightly different spot, and the slightly different spot that I was in is I had a lot of credibility from the podcast.
And when the coaching started, I. It actually started in the middle of COVID and I was, you know, through the podcast, I was trying a lot of different things, different things to make it profitable and make money or whatever. The podcast ran me into a hole of over a hundred thousand dollars by year seven or whatever because I never sold anything, never marketed anything, never ran an ad.
I sold T shirts once, and, like, 30 people bought it or something. I sold a book once, and, like 20 people bought it. And so I was like, I would love if this thing even broke even. You know, I would love if this thing broke even. So I was basically taking all the money I would make from gigs and spending it on making the podcast run. So I had a lot of credibility from doing the episodes. I had sold a couple of things here and there for a couple hundred bucks or whatever. And in the swing of COVID a couple of things happened. The first is Ben and I went all in on virtual shows. And because we went all in on virtual shows, my teachings were not here's how to. It was here's how we are. Here's what we're doing. And I was doing a lot of free workshops and webinars online, and people were asking for support.
But the other thing that I did in Covid is I launched something called Magique. I used to call it Magiq, but Cody Clark, who's one of the amazing magicians who I work, he coined it Magique, which I love. So Magique stands for Magician Accountability Guide in Corinth team. And the point of it was basically being like, hey, we're all locked up.
Let's work together. Let's use this moment that we will never have again to work on our magic or magic business or creativity or whatever. And I remember this moment where I took a book because people were hiring us for virtual shows and the people that were in that program, and I took a book off the shelf and I was Going like, literally, the tricks in this book people are paying me money to do. You can pick up a book, open it up, read a trick, and someone will give you money to do that trick. That's how bored people are at home. And the point of this wasn't coaching. It was like accountability. Like not being depressed in Covid, like making stuff, like just feeling like, hey, I spent two months, you know, with a bunch of magicians keeping me accountable, sharing my projects, doing this and that, and.
And it ended up, you know, I produced this, I wrote a show, I did 10 virtual shows. I finally got over myself and live streamed me doing tricks. I started making content, whatever. So that's how it started. And I forget how much it was probably a couple hundred bucks, three or 400 or something, for like three months of weekly calls and this and help and support.
[00:42:30] Speaker A: Pretty great.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And the point of it was basically just accountability. It was, hey, I'm no pro, I'm no expert, I'm just going to keep you guys accountable and make sure that. And I had three communities running of like 12 people each. We were all helping each other and all that. That slowly morphed into the people who weren't pro were like, this was fun, but like, I gotta get back to work. And like, you know, everything's cool. The people that were pro were like, hey, I would love more of your help and support. So that morphed into a program that was called Upgrade Academy, which existed for a while until that morphed into the gigs program and then the people that were crushing it in. Upgrade Academy is when the Mastermind launched and then it sort of launched into all that. So long story, but the point is, be cheap, work for testimonials, work for proof, be make lifetime fans, and then you can grow from there. And obviously it's all made easier if you have a giant audience, which I did through, I wouldn't call it giant, but, you know, had an audience through the podcast, which at least was a stepping stone. Like, if I had zero followers and no one know who it was, it'd be hard to be like, I've got an accountability group that you should all join, you know, so that helped a little.
But it's the same for any industry at all. If you want to do the thing, you gotta work for free, do epic work, get epic results, and work for testimonials. And now people pay. They get amazing results and I get testimonials. But back then they paid very little and I got testimonials and they got Good, good results. And I also learned, like, these are not my people to coach. These are my people to coach. Accountability is part of it. But I actually have tools that I use that, you know, are really useful to people. So that's kind of how it started.
[00:44:26] Speaker A: Okay, what, what does.
I don't want to get you off on too much of a tangent, but what does.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: I know. I talk so much.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: I love it because I. What does. What does it look like to be a member of the Master Mind group?
[00:44:43] Speaker B: Blood brothers. We all cut our hand and. I'm kidding.
I'm going to try to give an outline that similar to the one that I gave on the conversation with Eric Tate.
[00:44:54] Speaker A: That'd be great.
[00:44:55] Speaker B: So I think it'll be really helpful. So you can think of the Mastermind as having three parts to it. There's the plan, the tools, and the help. So first of all, you have to apply and you have to get accepted it, you know, and it's expensive from there. The plan, the tools and the help. First, the plan. When you say, Jonah, let's get started. We do a 30 minute to an hour, one on one game plan call where we top down look through every single thing in your business and we say, got it. You need help Right now, in this moment with X, Y and Z. These are your first projects. There's. Here's where in the content to go and watch it and to learn it. This is what you're getting. Starting with. That's the first thing. Second thing in the plan is four times a year, all of the members of the Mastermind, we all get together. Three of them are online, one of them is in person in Mexico, happening at the end of this month. And it's going to be awesome. Sweet. Yeah. We plan out your next basically 90 days because A, those three projects are going to only last you a couple weeks or months, depending on your cadence, and B, what a magician should be working on in January, February, March, or what they should be working on in October, November, December are two completely different things. So we're going to make sure you're working on the right stuff at the right time. And we do it all together so that you can see what everyone else is working on and make sure that you're working on the right stuff, both for your situation as well as for the time of year that you're in. That's the plan. Next is the tools. We have a long list of tools that we have that allows people to go faster. So we have a full content bank that is videos and worksheets and templates over the shoulders of everything. Of running Google Ads and SEO and cold email and pricing and promo videos and websites and landing pages and work life balance and hiring and everything. Everything you can think of. We've got videos and worksheets and over the shoulders and stuff like that. We also have something called the 10K mastermind, which means that every member of the Mastermind teaches something that they do that makes them at least $10,000 a year in their business. And it's not something I teach. And they lead a session on that and that content bank. And we also bring in special guests like Bill Herz who I just interviewed. Tomorrow he's doing a Q and A with the Mastermind. Where Cool, right? This guy is the number one corporate booker on the planet, 100%.
[00:47:11] Speaker A: And by, by a billion miles and.
[00:47:13] Speaker B: A room full of magicians are all going to grill him about everything they need to know. So we also have special guests there. I am somewhat well connected. Not really even inside, outside of the magic space, there's people that even aren't magicians but are experts in their field where it's really applicable to magic, where they've come in as special guests and I basically grilled them on hey, here's this, how would you do it? Like multi, multi hundred million dollar business owners that can have some really good opinions. So that's the tools. We went over the plan. That's the original game plan plus the quarterly planning. The tools is the videos, the worksheets, the over the shoulders and as well multiple times a month these things are happening live. So like I said, the one that I'm doing with Bill Herz tomorrow people are attending live, but it's also being recorded and goes into the content bank for anybody who can attend live or who's watching it later. That's the plan, that's the tools. Last is the help. Four ways to get help. First, there is a private Facebook group. I know there's a lot of Facebook groups. They're all just magicians complaining about crediting. I actually don't care who invented the trick. That's not the point of my group. This is just the magicians doing 50, 1001-502002-50300. It's just them. So when you have a problem, what a group, like when people post in these other groups about how should I price my first I'm do someone hired me for a show, what trick should I do? Like it's not that we're not at that that's not the level, right?
[00:48:42] Speaker A: No.
[00:48:42] Speaker B: So people are asking in depth questions. Here's my promo video. Can you please tear it apart so I can send more notes to the editor?
Right. Here's my new pricing structure for church gigs. Here's the promo material I have. Do you think I nailed it? Anything you would tweak?
Hey, here's this problem I'm having with follow ups. Can someone send their best practice that they do? Hey, I just hired my first employee. Does anyone have a contract that they're willing to share? Because I'm making mine right now. So really active Facebook group full of people that are doing the stuff. There is a weekly win the week call where everyone's invited. On that call we say here's the accountability. What did you say you were going to do last week? What did you actually do last week? And then the whole rest of that call is problem solving and Q and A. So if you want my and the other members active, hands on help on whatever, bring it to the call or there. We're going to give you help on it. The calls 90 minutes but we don't stop until everyone's questions are answered. So what, you are maximum six days away from getting my and others hands on help on whatever problem you're working on. I also have hired multiple people on my team, including an ads guy who runs my personal Google Ads and has got over a million dollars worth of bookings in Google Ads for my squad alone. Never mind the Mastermind, Toronto magic company alone. I also have a member of the Mastermind who has been hired because he is an expert in cold email and teams. So if you have a question about one of those things, he'll hop on a call with you and help you with that. I also have another member who I mentioned. The other one is Kelvin. The last one was Jeff. This was Kelvin. Kelvin scaled from 25k a year to 250k a year in 3 years in the Mastermind. Right. He did all the stuff. So I was like, great, I'm hiring you to be able to help people because there's a lot of things that you know better than I do now and like you're there to help them so he's there to do one on ones. So I have a team of coaches in different things that help with different things that as the Mastermind grows and there's more resources, that team will grow. So the, the, that's why it's a join us in the Mastermind, not join me in the Mastermind because there's a. There's an us.
So for the, the plan, the tools, the help, there's the Facebook group, the weekly call, a team of people that can help you with the things that you need, including me and Kelvin and Jeff and Sam, the ads guy. And there is what I like to call the red button, which is if something goes horribly wrong in your business, like there's another pandemic or something goes horribly right and someone wants to book you for a multi show tour and you have no idea how to price it, send me a message and you and I will get it sorted out within 24 hours, whether it's on chat or voice, note or screen recording or video or whatever. So as you can see, it is pretty full. Yeah. Everyone doesn't use every single thing that's at their disposal. If you were to use every single thing that's at your disposal, you don't have time to run the actual business. Right. Like so everyone doesn't use every last thing that's at their disposal. But there are certain things that some people need more than others. Some need accountability, some don't. Some really need the content, some don't. There are members that are members literally just so they can come to the yearly event every year in Mexico because they get to sit in a room with these other guys and say, hey, show me this, show me this, show me this.
There's people that are just, they're literally just there for the Facebook group, honestly, so that they can, every idea they have, they can just put it in. There's some that are only there for the content bank. They literally don't do anything else.
So different people use different aspects of it, but all of these things are there to help you scale. And the most important thing is we track your everything.
So there's no getting away or slipping under the radar. I know what your monthly revenue is. I know how well you did this month. I know how it compares to last month. I know how it compares to last year. We track your everything. So when we're looking at people's numbers and someone did a 50k month in March, we're like, hey, can you explain to us what you did to do that? Because we would all like that. And then if Someone has a $3,000 a month in March, we come up, we go, just want to make sure that everything is okay. And if we can help you get back up to the way that you were. So the last thing that sort of circles all this. I know this is a long bit.
[00:53:03] Speaker A: No, that's great.
[00:53:04] Speaker B: The last thing that circles all of this is we're on your ass. I meet with Kelvin and with Jeff regularly to go over all of the members, what they're, where they're at, what they're working on, what their biggest problem is, what's next for them, da, da, da, da, da. And making sure that they have the resources at their disposal. So it's a lot. But the last thing I'll say about it is it works so well that we guarantee your results.
So the people that join it, there is no, you know, like your dad's story with the dentist office. There is no, take all the money you don't have, invest it. Fingers crossed, hope it works. Literally, if this does not pay for itself and then some by a lot within our first six months of working together, I will pause your payments and work with you for free, for eternity until you do. So I guarantee that it is ROI positive. And if it's not, I will be your coach for free forever until it does. That's how sure I am that.
[00:54:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:54:10] Speaker B: That's how sure I am that it works.
[00:54:12] Speaker A: That's great. And plus, you. You know that they can because you. You've approved them, you've picked them as much as they picked you.
[00:54:19] Speaker B: The number of people that I say, look, I'll give you an example. I get on a call with someone and they go, I say, what do you want? Like, we're here on a call chatting. What do you want? They say, what I really want is to open my own theaters. Open my own theater to produce a recurring show with my name on it. And I say, I'm so sorry. First of all, I don't recommend you do that. As someone who's produced lots of shows and got out of the game, I don't recommend you that. But if you do choose to pursue that, I am not your guy.
So there's plenty of people out there. I know someone right now has a course about producing public shows. I forget what his name is, but there's people out there that may be able to help. It's not me. I'm sorry. Sometimes I'm on a call with someone and I'm chatting with them, and I just go, not my vibe, man. You know, this is not someone who I want to subject a community to. Sometimes people are talking, like, we share openly about our numbers. So, like, when someone's talking and I'm like, I sniff that they're making up stuff and that they're BSing and trying to. I'm like, I don't know, man. You know, that's not so. Like I said about that doctor, Dr. Strange instance is like, yeah, I'm only taking on clients where I look and I go, oh, yeah, this is a putt. This is easy. I know exactly what you need. You're a classic case. As I say, if you're on a call with me and I say to you, we eat problems like this for breakfast, that means you are right in the pocket. You are exactly the archetype of person that I can help.
[00:55:47] Speaker A: Amazing.
Okay, that's. That was, that was. That's great stuff.
[00:55:52] Speaker B: Thorough.
[00:55:53] Speaker A: It was.
[00:55:54] Speaker B: But hopefully it gives a good snapshot for what it's like in the Mastermind.
[00:55:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. And it's. And the more I hear about it, the more legit, Like, I just like that you've got the receipts. That's. That's all. You know, it's. That's what you. That's what I like about it is that you've got the receipts. You're like, yeah, no big. No big deal. We've. We know how to do it.
[00:56:12] Speaker B: And look, you know, it was a magic pill. Everyone would do it. It's work. It's a variety of stuff. Some people join in, their problem is pricing, and they're overwhelmed with leads. Some people join in, their problem is leads. Some people have shit promo material. Some people really need to hire a team member. Some people. And once you do one of the things, once you fix your pricing, then all of a sudden leads is an issue. And once you fix your leads, all of a sudden your pro is an issue. So we know what it looks like, we know what people need. It's not magic. I'll leave that to the trick part.
[00:56:43] Speaker A: You should. Yeah, they can. They can find their own tricks.
[00:56:46] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:56:46] Speaker A: If they don't come to you with a show that's already. It's already impossible.
[00:56:51] Speaker B: We have begun helping people with their shows a little bit. And partially it's because there are magicians in the Mastermind that are making outrageous money whose shows are okay. And I don't love that. I want them to go out there and crush it. And look, they're good enough. People are rehiring them like they're awesome. You know, it's. It's an opinion, of course. But I always held myself back from helping people with their shows. I was like, ah, you work on the show, work on the business. But I realize that it's. It's so important. It's so important. And it's really. Obviously, I Mean, obviously, it's part of the package deal is like, you know, if people were going to the dentist office and he was pulling out the wrong teeth or whatever, like, yeah, you know, it doesn't matter. Exactly. So I now help people with it. It is slowly morphing to become a part of it. But I don't say, here's how to build your show. I don't say, here's what you should be doing. I don't pick whatever material that you want. But we do watch people's. It'll. The show part will grow, but we do watch people's acts and help them write jokes and help them spot pacing. And where this is not on the right pace, this is help them with blocking issues. Help them with. Almost none of the magic help that we do is tricks.
[00:58:09] Speaker A: It's really the theater of it.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: Exactly. It's all the theater of it. And just to do a callback was not bad.
I am lucky that even though I don't think public shows is a big moneymaker, it is a great way to get reps. And Ben and I did minimum. At its height, we did minimum five shows a week.
[00:58:34] Speaker A: Holy crap.
[00:58:35] Speaker B: Five shows a week. We did our newest trick in the book on Tuesday, and then we did two shows Friday, two shows Saturday at a Dave and Buster's, and then we would often have some more as well. So about five shows a week for years. And because of that, my act is good. And Ben and I every week would, on the drive home, give each other notes and give each other feedback and make it better. So I learned how to give feedback. I learned what a premise is. I learned how to write a joke. I learned. And so did he. You know, he was good. He was good at it before, better than me, but he learned from me. I learned from him, and I got that experience. So now that's another part of the experience that I can pass on and share and help the Mastermind members with. So that is relatively new. I used to tell people, hey, I don't touch the show. I don't touch the show. But that slowly started to change because it's an area that people want support in and need support in, and we're building it out. And who knows, in a month or three months or six months, there may be a person whose job is in the Mastermind to help people with their shows. Who knows, right? It's based on what could be, need, and want. But 100%, that's how we. That's how we scale with the right people helping people with the stuff they need most.
[00:59:43] Speaker A: All right, you ready for three fast questions? These, these do not require a long answer.
[00:59:49] Speaker B: I mean, I'll do my best.
[00:59:50] Speaker A: Good luck with that. Right?
[00:59:51] Speaker B: My best.
[00:59:52] Speaker A: All right, these are, these are the last three, last three hard ones. What's your favorite magic book?
[01:00:00] Speaker B: Can I give a medium length answer?
[01:00:02] Speaker A: You can do whatever you want.
[01:00:03] Speaker B: Okay. My favorite magic book is the Magic Rainbow by Juan Tamaris. Here's my medium length answer. He's a wacky guy, as anybody who's watched him knows. The first quarter of the book is esoteric poems and ramblings, which I love. But when someone tells you that's the best magic book on the planet and you can't get through 30 pages, it's hard to imagine that it's going to get better.
Skip the first quarter, read the book. Then when you're obsessed, because it is about everything, pacing, timing, comedy, writing effects and everything. Then when you're hoping that there's more book, go and read the first quarter. The east gift for sure.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: What is your most important advice to magicians who want to take their magic to the next level?
I wrote this before. We just talked for the last hour.
[01:01:01] Speaker B: Their magic or their business?
[01:01:02] Speaker A: Magic.
[01:01:03] Speaker B: Okay, so magicians who want to take their magic to the next level. I would say watch your damn show and learn to write jokes.
That's pretty good.
[01:01:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that is a good one. If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice as like a 10 year old Jonah, what would it be?
[01:01:27] Speaker B: 10 year old?
[01:01:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's when, that's when after that you start making way bigger mistakes than usual.
[01:01:33] Speaker B: God, if I was to go and give myself Advice As a 10 year old, I don't know, man. I did it pretty good. Like, I don't know, I'm perfect here. So things are pretty rad.
Yeah. I mean, what I would say is you actually can be a professional magician. That is a job and it's not impossible to do. But my weird route led me here, so I'm cool with it.
[01:02:03] Speaker A: What do you. And this is the very, very last one. Where do we find you on social media, on like how do people get in contact with their. Interested in Mastermind or the Toronto Magic Company or just your stuff in general?
[01:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'll give you a bunch of resources if you're. If you want to know about the Toronto Magic Company, which is basically Ben and I doing corporate gigs. That's what the whole thing is now. But if you're interested in it, toronto magic company.com or on Instagram or on Facebook. We're on Tinder. In terms of the. Thank you. In terms of the Mastermind, everything I do is through the name of my podcast, Discourse and Magic. I'll say what I said on the last sort of interview that I did, which is before you message me and say, hey, I want your help growing. Go look at the stuff. Go look at the videos I post, go look at the proof, Go listen to the some of the 370 episodes of the podcast and just make sure that you like my vibe and that you actually think that I can help. And assuming that that's the. Like, I have so much out there that's free. So go and consume it. Consume as much as you can. Discourse in Magic. It's on Instagram. It's the name of the podcast. We now upload everything to YouTube. So it's all there. So go check it all out and if you like it, send me a message. And you can send me a message with the word masterclass and I'll know that you came from here and that you already kind of.
[01:03:18] Speaker A: Oh, wait, masterclass. You just said masterclass.
[01:03:20] Speaker B: But that's the name of your thing, right?
[01:03:22] Speaker A: No, my. Mine's Magician's Workshop.
[01:03:25] Speaker B: Workshop. Oh, I don't know why I said masterclass.
[01:03:27] Speaker A: No, well, that's because we were talking about the project I'm working with for Vanishing Inc.
[01:03:31] Speaker B: So never mind.
[01:03:31] Speaker A: Magicians Workshop.
[01:03:32] Speaker B: Let me say that again.
If you've done all that and you want my help growing, then send me a message with the word Magicians Workshop or workshop. Just so I know that you came from here and that will tell me that you already have an idea about what it is that we do inside of the Mastermind. And we'll hop on a call and see if you're a fit. And if you're listening to this before mid May and you want help with the gigs program, same thing. Send me a message with whatever word you want. Same thing. And we'll chat to see which one you're best fit for then if you want to follow me personally, Jonah Babbins, Magic. I'm on Instagram. I don't have a website anymore. It goes to the Toronto Magic Company, but I'm on Instagram. Facebook, so message on Facebook. I'm always on Facebook. It's a. I know it's for old people, but like, yeah.
[01:04:16] Speaker A: What? You're way too young for that.
[01:04:17] Speaker B: I'm. It's like everything. I'm. Spend all my day on Facebook.
[01:04:22] Speaker A: That is. That's wild. Okay, well, I've got. I've got a couple of things I ate that I took pictures of that you can. You can go.
[01:04:27] Speaker B: Yeah, please. I'll like it and give a little snarky comment.
[01:04:33] Speaker A: All right. That is all the time we have for today's episode. Jonah Babbins, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate taking the time to sit down with us and tell your story.
And to anyone listening, if you like what we're doing here, please like and subscribe on YouTube so you can watch this in glorious video and follow and rate the podcast so we can spread the world. Spread the word that magic is for everyone. I am Dr. Todd. This was Magician's Workshop, and we will see you next time.
[01:04:57] Speaker B: Later, friends.
