Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Magician's Workshop, the only podcast hosted by an amateur magician just trying to become better at the craft. How do we improve? You ask? By interviewing the best magicians on the planet. So, like, comment, subscribe and check out our amazing merch. It helps us to make sure we get the best interviews and content possible so we can all get better together. Today on the show, I'm talking with magician Ben Nemser. From Magic Camp to the Magic Castle, Ben takes us on a journey through mentorship, performance, and the real life magic of connecting with an audience. We talk about the invisible deck imposter syndrome and why community matters more than ever in Magic. I'm Dr. Todd. This is Magician's Workshop. And away we go.
Ready to pull back the curtain and dive into some magical mayhem with Ben Nemser. He's graced Netflix and Comedy Central, headlined at Hollywood's legendary magic castle and New York City's oldest off Broadway magic club, and performed for Fortune 500 clients and celebrities like Jeff Gordon and Martha Stewart. In this episode, Ben spills the beans on his origin story. From magic camp counselor to apprentice of the spectacular Steve Cohen. If you've ever dreamed of getting behind the scenes looks at what it's like to be a real pro, you. You'll want to buckle up and subscribe because Ben's here to show us behind the curtains of his wild career. No sleight of hand required. I'm Dr. Todd. This is Magician's Workshop, and let's get into it. All right.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Wow, what an intro. Thanks.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Welcome. Welcome to my little magic, My little magic camp.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: I love it. I love it.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: So.
I know. So I read that you started at 8 years old with a magic kit.
Do you think you're. This was your little brother's. Do you think your little brother had any idea he was launching a future Netflix like career?
[00:01:54] Speaker B: No, I. It was actually. So it was my older brother and.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: Oh, same as me. Okay.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The story goes he got a magic kit for the holidays and he wouldn't let me play with it. So naturally, as a younger sibling, I was obsessed with what was off limits. And then, you know, maybe after two weeks, he got bored and just gave it to me. And I systematically mastered every little magic trick in that box. I had to learn more. I went to the library. 793.8. Took out every book.
I joined the local society of American Magicians. I was the only kid in a room full of just a whole bunch of old people, but I loved it. And it just kind of Kept going from there.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: So.
So you went to Magic Camp?
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: And then you were a counselor at Magic Camp. Can you tell this was Tannen's Magic Camp?
[00:02:43] Speaker B: Yep, Tannen's Magic Camp.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: Can you tell us a little bit about Magic Camp? Because I would have loved to have gone to Magic Camp.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So Magic Camp, at least Tannen's Magic Camp, as far as I know, is the only camp that is just for magic and magicians. There's no fishing, sports, rowboating, campfires, you know, none of that stuff. It's magic lectures, workshops, jam sessions, celebrity performances, you know, and stuff like, it's just like is magic non stop all the time. It's about 80% male, 20% female. But the numbers are kind of, as times are changing, going like this.
It's ages, I believe, 12 to 21. I started as a 12 or 13 year old kid, made some of my best friends in the world there. Some have gone off to be very successful magicians, some who have faded out of magic completely but it still, you know, has a very special part of their lives.
And it started in Long island and then eventually that's where I started and now it's in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania And I still try to go back as a counselor when I can. I went back last summer for the first time in about five years. I'm not going to be able to go back this summer, but it's just a really special place.
Copperfield visited when I was a kid. I remember that, yeah, Copperfield came as a visitor. David Blaine was a camper and performer there, if I believe correctly.
Steve Cohen.
Yeah, so many. Chris Angel, I remember came once and just gave like showed up in a Lamborghini and gave like an impromptu lecture to like the older teens in our hallway after lights out. Just like it's just like there's nothing like it anywhere else in the world. It's just insane. All magic, all the time.
And professional magicians, you know, you know, like me and who are way more successful than myself come and just, you know, Lucy Darling, Nick Defat, Derek Hughes, Harrison Greenbaum. I mean like the list goes on and on and on. You know, Mike Cavy and Tina started to come.
I mean, yeah, Johnny Thompson would come and we'd be out lunch and a punk ass 13 year old kid would come up to Johnny Thompson and be like, I'm trying to learn how to top a deck. And I.
And he'd be like in the middle of a bite of food and he'd put it down and go well there's 13 different ways to top a deck. And, you know, Vernon showed me just, like, you're like, oh, these kids have no idea. The knowledge that is just, like, being freely passed on by, you know, people have been, you know, around the world and back, you know, it's really cool. It's a really cool space.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Wow.
So is. Is.
So take me a little bit after.
So after magic camp, when did you decide that you were going to become a professional?
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, so I was always very much into theater, and I studied theater in high school. In college, I went to performing arts school and all that, and I thought I wanted to be an actor for a while, and I was auditioning for a lot of things, and I. I was in a, you know, a bunch of movies and commercials and this and that, but it was like, mostly background. You're like, oh, there he is. He's gone. You know, like, it was never, you know. So after years of really not amounting to much, but going to hundreds of auditions and studying theater in college, I went to a small school called Marymount Manhattan College on the Upper east side of New York City.
And in between classes, I'd be running off to auditions and trying to book work, and then on weekends, I would be doing magic shows.
And they say, statistically, you're likely to book one in every hundred auditions you go on, right? And then maybe the odds get better with callbacks. But it was getting to the point where, like, I would get a callback for a film on a. And I'd also have a birthday party to perform at, and it's like, okay, I can get a guaranteed few hundred dollars, or I could ruin the most important day of somebody's life and go to an audition. And, you know, and, like, it just wasn't becoming tenable to do both at the same time. And I realized, I said, you know, if I have to do both of these, I just might not be successful at either. And I think I really need to pick one to focus on. So I was a sophomore or junior in college studying acting at the time, and I said to my acting teacher, I said, listen, you know, I know this is a weird thing to tell my acting teacher halfway through the school year, but I don't want to be an actor. You know, I want to. I want to be a magician. And.
And, you know, we talked about, like, the Rover Houdin. You know, a magician is merely an actor playing the part of a magician. And we really kind of dug into that. And she says, yes, okay. So it's the same thing. You're an actor playing the part of a magician. When we do monologues, we're going to do a monologue where you're speaking to a group of people rather than just speaking to an individual. Because when you're a magician, your scene partner is your audience, and you break that fourth wall. So I really. I was very lucky to have theater instructors and teachers that were able to say, yeah, that's fine. You're not doing something so traditional.
So even in college, I was, you know, I was working for Steve Cohen. I was working at Monday Night Magic in the West Village. I remember Monday nights, I would finish my classes and then get into a taxi to go across town. And in the back seat of the taxi, every Monday night, I would change into a dress shirt, dress pants, and dress shoes, like, full out. Take my pants off in the back of a cab so that I could be an usher at Monday Night Magic or a backstage tech or a ticket salesperson or, you know, a concession state, whatever the job was that night.
I. Every Monday night, I was, you know, changing in the backseat of a cab. But, yeah, so basically, it was college when I realized, like, okay, yeah, I think I want to do. I want to do magic full time.
Yeah. In fact, rewinding, because I was doing children's birthday parties all through high school. You know, I was, like, the only one in high school who had money because I would be doing children's birthday parties.
And I remember one year, you know, my parents paid for magic camp four years in a row.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: And I took a year off, and my parents said, you know what? You're old enough. Like, we're not paying. You know, at the time, it was like a thousand bucks. Now it's like a million.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: They're like, we're not gonna pay this money for you to go back to camp this year. Like, do your own thing. Like we've decided.
And I ran into Terry Cook, who's the camp director at, I think it was a Tannin's Jubilee in upstate New York.
And she goes, oh, are you coming to camp? How come you're not coming to camp this year? I didn't see you on the list.
And I was like, oh, you know, it was a little expensive. My parents aren't paying this year. So I decided not to. And she goes, oh, don't you do children's birthday parties? I was like, yes.
How much do you charge?
300 bucks.
So you're telling me you can't put away money for less than Four magic shows over the course of an entire year. Just don't be lazy, Ben.
So the following year I put away money and I went to magic camp.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a great lesson.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
Wow. How did you end up kind of apprenticing with Steve Cohen for. And let's. Can you tell us a little bit about him for anyone who doesn't know who that is?
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Yeah. So Steve Cohen is coined the millionaire's magician. And he has a wildly successful show in New York City. Currently it's at the Lote Palace Hotel.
And it's really the quintessential parlor magic experience. I mean, if you go back to the. The roots and the history and the origin of parlor magic and the way used to be portrayed in Victorian era in people's actual parlors, that's really what he's tried to capture. And it has a very old school vibe.
I've seen the show well over a hundred times.
It's when I saw it was at the Waldorf in the Waldorf Towers. And basically they would reserve this, the suite for him, one of the presidential suites or otherwise, and they would. You set up all the chairs and they'd cap it at about only 50 people. So it really is like a true parlor experience, which is about the same size as the parlor at the castle.
55 seats. And he would just, you know, it was a dress code. You'd have to dress nice. He'd be wearing a tail, you know, it's full tucks and tails and just do this really well done, mind blowing magic.
He is just like an expert of sleight of hand. His.
His beast de resistance is. It's called Think a Drink.
Yeah. Based on P.T. hoffman and the various think of drinks throughout history. But basically people have drinks that they thought of poured right in front of. And it's just like, it's. It really is just a wonderful moment. And I learned a lot about magic working with him. So apprenticeship.
Yeah, I guess it was an apprenticeship. But I was, I was his usher, essentially.
And it was one of the many ways where I really kind of learned show business from the inside out. Whether it had to do with ticketing or setting up the space, you know, I would get there. I lived on 55th between second and third, which is the midtown East Manhattan. And the Waldorf towers were just a few blocks away like maybe 50th and park.
And every Friday night I would walk over in a suit.
I was probably my only person in college I knew who owned a suit every Friday I would walk over and I would help him get the room set, and I'd put the playbills or the programs on every single chair and make sure everything looked nice. And then people would come in, and I'd check their name off the list, you know, right this way. And I'd get them to their seats and.
And then when the show would end and people would leave, I'd have to clean up the room, make sure the seats were set, make sure the bathroom looked good, make sure everything was ready to go.
And I would always watch the show in between the two seating. So every Friday night, I would watch the first seating of the show.
So I learned a lot just from watching the same show over and over and over.
And one of the things I learned from that show is that just the value of creating moments that really seem like they're once in a lifetime, but that happen consistently every single time or most of the time.
And just kind of watching, you know, Hughes really was just a master of just, like, acting like everything there was happening for the first time and creating just, like a really special experience then in between shows, you know, I was a teenager in my young 20s, and I would just ask millions of questions, you know, and he would always give me the time of day, and he'd be like, oh, I see you're working on a pass.
You know, I happen to be a master of the classic pass. And I was like. And I was like, oh, really? Okay, here you go. I like, he did it. And I was like, do that again.
Do that again.
I was like, yeah, but you're not doing anything. Finally, I put my head, like, under his hands like this, and I was like, oh, okay. You really are a master. Got it.
So, yeah, I mean, like, I would always. You know, I've looked inside the teapot. I'm one of maybe a few people in the world who looked inside Steve Cohen's teapot of mystery.
So, yeah, I mean, he's always been.
I mean, like, in an unofficial capacity. I've always viewed him as. As almost like a mentor, apprenticeship of situation, because I think it was probably about two years.
Every Friday night I came and I worked for him, and he gave me a little mention in one of his most recent books as well. But, yeah.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: Really? Yeah. Really cool experience working with Steve Cohen.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Yeah, he really is like the quintessential parlor magician. It's just. It's just so cool.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it really is. And it's. It's.
You know, it's an experience you know, there's so many people who just kind of like wear shorts and flip flops to a Broadway show these days. But like, it's required that you dress up. And it's like there's Vivaldi playing in the background and there's drink service and it's just like, it's like a night out on the town in what Manhattan used to be, or still is in certain circles, you know?
[00:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's why, that's why one of my, my missions is to. Is to go see. Go to the Magic Castle.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: And you've. You've played the Magic Castle?
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I was just there last night, actually.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Wait, you were there last night and you just. And you're. Where are you right now? Are you, are you in.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: I'm in la. Yeah.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: So you're in la. Okay.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I live.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: Right. You're current. You. That's where you are currently?
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I call myself Bicoastal, but my permanent address is now Los Angeles and I'm just in New York a lot and I travel a lot for events as well. But no, last night I was performing with a corporate client and in addition to bringing them into the Magic Castle for the night, I gave them a private show downstairs in the hat and hair lounge. And I gave them kind of an exclusive behind the bookcase tour and showed them all the hidden secrets of the castle and toured them around.
And then I also did some impromptu close up magic and I just kind of played tour guide for the group for one of my clients and it was just like a real special night out. But I perform there about one to two times a year and they give a one week engagement and it's usually about 21 shows, three shows a night.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: What part of the Castle do you perform in? The main stage or so I have.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: Actually, you know, I'm pretty versatile in all of my magic, but especially at the Castle, I think they like me because they know they can kind of plug me into almost any room there.
So the last time I performed there was the Close Up Room.
The three times before that was the palace of Mystery, the main stage, and the three times before that was the parlor.
So actually the.
The secret is my wife is also a magician.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Where we were going to get to that. Okay, dish man. Come on.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: So literally the dream.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: I can't even get my wife to help me with a website.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: Oh my gosh. So my wife is also a magician and I'm constantly riding her coattails you know, she's a little more specialty than me, you know, because I feel like white male comedy, stand up, magic acts or a dime a dozen. I mean, sure, there's nobody who's me and does what I do and. And connects with people the way that, you know, blah, blah. Yeah, I get it. I'm not diminishing myself, but, like, as far as, like, checking boxes, you know, she's a female opera singer who does spectacle magic on stage, and it's just, like, way more niche and specific, and there's way less of people in the world who do what she does.
So the first time we worked the Castle, she got booked in the palace.
And when they. And we were coming from New York City, and when the booker said, oh, you mean we can book you too and we don't have to get another hotel room.
Okay.
And they put me in the parlor.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Fantastic.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: So they did that two more times where she was the palace and I was the parlor. And that is so cool, because a lot of people don't know that there's a secret wal entrance that goes from the.
The house of the Parlor of Prestidigitation into the palace of mystery backstage.
So it was cool because I think once a night, we had showtimes that overlapped, and I could hear her audiences applauding through the wall, and she could hear my audiences applauding through the wall because her dressing room shared the wall of my showroom. So it was just really cool experience.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: That's so cool.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: And then finally, Jack Goldfinger, I think, saw Page a couple times and was like, oh, you'd be great.
Do you own a tuxedo? I was like, yes, I own a tuxedo. You're booked. So then I did. I did the opening MC spot, and then Cassandra did the headlining spot.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Oh, so cool.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: And that was really cool because we didn't.
We're booked as totally separate acts. We weren't booked as the duo act, which we also do elsewhere.
But we didn't let people know that we were married until the end of her set, toward the end of the show. And she does this, you know, dramatic routine to Tony Clark's Gypsy Balloon, where she talks about how we moved across the country over Covid and not knowing if we're ever going to perform again and how we did it on our anniversary. And it's like, super romantic and sappy and blah, blah, blah. And she's singing while she's doing this, and at the end, she pops it and confetti comes out of the thing. But she talks about, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, My husband Ben, who you just met earlier tonight. And then all of a sudden, the audience goes, oh.
So it's just like one of those. Oh, my God, it was really cute.
So whenever we perform at the Castle, we try to do that together.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: That's amazing.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Same thing happened with Chicago Magic Lounge.
She got booked there, and then they're like, all right, we'll see if we have a spot for you. Okay, fine. We'll put you in the 654 Club, since we already have Cassandra on stage, you know, so, you know, you have to be advantageous, you know, like, for them, they love it because they get two acts and they only have to use one hotel room.
[00:21:33] Speaker A: That's a big time save money.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And for us, we love it because we get two paychecks.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Whereas, like, when we perform on cruise ships, they're paying per act, not per person.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Oh, okay. I was about to ask that.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, we couldn't. You. We can make less, but it's. There's longevity because we can travel together, you know?
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Yeah. How often do you do cruise ship shows? Because for anyone watching, if you're. You're behind the scenes, like, walking through. I love.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:22:00] Speaker A: Behind the scenes, walking. I love that stuff.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: I love to do more of that. Yeah.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Oh, I. Well, for me, even just for me, because I love that behind the scenes stuff, like the stage, seeing how it, like how the back rooms work. I just love that stuff.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: I mean, sometimes when I'm performing on a cruise ship, if I wanted to do pre show work in the audience, you know, every ship is different, every layout is different, but there's been ships where I literally have to go out, out onto deck, walk around on deck, and then go back into that, into the side of the audience. And it's so funny that I'll be like, you know, like in a suit and tie and. And then, like, I walk out and I'm like an 85 degree humidity, like the ocean and like Saint Martin behind me, you know, or inversely, like icebergs and bald eagles. And then, like, I go back and I'm like, all right, time for a magic show.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: It's just like it's sort of seen.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Or sometimes I'll, like, I'll need to run out to, like, get something.
But the backs. You know, on cruise ships, we're generally considered guests, but the backstage of the theater meets the crew area, and every once in a while we'll have to, like, Go through a crew area, and I'll feel like I'm in the Titanic with just like, as far as you can see, these narrow hallways with doors, and they're like these mazes and passages. And I'm like, just how do I get to a passenger area above deck? Like, where is. You know. But it's. Yeah, it's unreal. It's a really cool kind of bizarre experience. But, yeah. So when we perform on cruise ships together, we're paid by the act, but we get to travel together. And the idea is, if we took our two separate shows and combined it into one big one, you know, we want to have to go, you know, lots of time without seeing each other. And then on land, if we can be paid as two separate acts, it's obviously always better to get two paychecks, you know.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Absolutely.
I want to talk to you about magic on television. Okay, so what was your first introduction to television magic? Like, how did you get involved with.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Sure. Gosh. My very, very first experience on television is a credit that I finally stopped using was on Nickelodeon tv.
I applied to be on a game show, and it was called Figure It Out Wild Style.
And the idea is these Nickelodeon TV stars had to guess what your talent was.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: And the wild style meant it had to involve animals. And so I did a dove production, and they had to guess that I was a magician. And so that was my very first tiptoe into magic on TV. I was in middle school, so I was maybe 11 or.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Oh, that's crazy. 11. Doing a dove act.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And I've done a handful of game shows. In fact, I was on an episode of Cash Cab with.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Oh, Very Cool.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: With a magician named Ali Shelley and also Harrison Greenbaum. And I'm trying to think who else was in the episode. There's one other person. Gosh, I'm going to get in trouble for this. And you know what's so funny on that episode, one of the questions was this basic display of juggling known as, like. Also known as a waterfall. Like effect is called the. And they show, like, a juggler. And the answer was cascade. But that's the point was we all knew the juggler. We were like, that's our friend Marcus.
And at the end, we did a whole bunch of magic for them, and none of it made the final cut. It's just like, so cookie cutter. The way that they edit it, that. That didn't get in.
What are some of that? You know, I haven't done tons and tons of TV stuff, but I have done some stuff, you know, like there was a documentary about magic camp, and some of my performance footage was in that on Netflix, which was really cool.
I was just on an episode of let's Make a Deal with Wayne Brady.
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I saw pictures of you. You and your wife were both on.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we were on it together.
And our costume was. Our costumes. I don't know if you're not familiar with the show. It's. You have to make the deals at door one, door two, you choose, blah, blah, blah. But everybody has to wear a crazy costume. So we got my friend Rob Belchunas, who's one of, like, the top 10 balloon sculptors in the world.
And we're like, rob, we're going to be on this show. We were thinking, like, Mario and Princess Peach, can you make a balloon dress for Cassandra?
And it was like, we're. And it's like. And we'll do our best to mention you. Maybe you'll get some free advertisement out of it. And we did mention him. They cut that. So he did it literally just for free.
But she had, like, a full dress made out of balloons. So Princess Peach and I, I had, like, the turtle shell backpack and whatnot.
And, you know, we were kind of. We wanted to have a magic trick ready, and we were really trying to think of, like, what the best thing would be and what we could do and this and that and da, da, da, da, da. And we want, you know, and also, because it was the two of us, we're always constantly working on the dynamic of how can it look like both of us are performing? You know, why is it. We don't want it to look like only one is carrying the weight? Or especially when you see a male and female magician, people immediately assume magician and assistant. So, like, how can we do this? And then also, what can we do that's like 100% fail proof? That's not going to, you know. And so finally we just. We were like, you know, what effort we're going to do. Invisible deck.
We know it's going to work.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it's going to work.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: And then so we explained it to one of the producers ahead of time. We're like, so there's, you know, two different ways to do this. We could have Wayne Brady, the host, think of a card, and then, you know, that'll be the card, and we'll have him take it. We said, or we could have him point to different people in the audience and ask red or black, black clubs or spades, the number. Da, da. Da, da, da.
And like, okay, great. We'll keep that in mind. We don't know if there'll be time for the segment.
So we're ready to go.
And we do it. Of course we nail it. Because it's invisible deck. You can't not nail it.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: And. Oh, whoops, sorry. I just. Earthquake.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: Totally fine.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: And then.
And he goes, that was good, but could you do it again?
And we're like, oh, yeah, we could, but earlier we said we had a card predicted ahead of time. So hold on. We need to make a new prediction.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: Turn around, just put it away, reset.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: The deck, bring it back out. Okay, now we're ready. And then they did this person. That person, that person. And then so after all that, we're like, okay, but there's no way that's gonna air, you know, and both versions aired, so. Wow. Like five, six minutes of airtime performing magic on CBS with just that. Which was super cool.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: So I'm throw this out there in case. Obviously most people that listen to this or know something about magic, if you don't, if you are just starting out or if you're ever curious about doing a magic trick, go buy an invisible deck and just do it. Do you, do you know any good like handlings or for like how to. Where people could find good handlings for.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: You know, I, I generally caution against this, but because it's such a generic trick, I bet you you could just YouTube invisible deck instructions. But I mean, if, in like a nutshell, I'll tell you if anyone's digging into it, there's the subtract from 13 version where you spread it. Right. But the problem is you have to hold the deck down this way. There is a way to do it up like this.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: I do that.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:53] Speaker A: I just look and you just.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it takes the think work out. You just look for the card.
[00:29:59] Speaker A: When you buy it, you'll, you'll see, you'll see what we mean. But yeah, when you hold the cards up, you'll see the card that they, that they're thinking of and you'll be able to produce it.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: Right. In fact, the only problem with that is that there is an angle issue if people are looking directly behind you.
But I didn't worry about that when we did it on tv. I said, you know what? The camera's not gonna see behind me.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: And the people who are seeing, they're not gonna know what that means. They're just gonna, you know, they're just like. It'll be a slight discrepancy but they're not gonna, like, really.
And they're also not gonna have an opportunity to, like, call it out on camera. So I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Brilliant.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: I'm gonna do it where the display is much better for the camera rather than making it 100 clean for the. The audience. Participants behind me who are.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's always a book.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: You know, I was talking to my friend Jessica Jane, who's a magician, and I. I was doing tossed out deck, and I was telling her about how we had one time where somebody called out a card that wasn't even in the deck.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: But they weren't trying to mess with me. Like, they just, like, they thought they saw that card. And I was like, I don't think so. Have a seat. You know, I didn't let it bother me, the audio. You know, I got four more cards than anybody else could have guessed. You know, I would. I. It was fine, you know, like, it wasn't a big deal. But I said that to her, and she's like, oh, I'm surprised you don't have an invisible deck on stage.
Oh, my God, yes, of course. That's not your card. Because I've had a card upside down the entire time in this deck over here, knowing that, you know, and it's just like, you act like it's on purpose.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Like, that's a great backup.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: And I was like, oh, yeah. And you know what the thing is, the invisible deck, I think magicians run away from it because it's considered such a hack trick, but it's also so powerful because it's. The simplicity of the effect is so strong that it just, like, it's a punch in the face, you know? I worked behind the counter at Tannen's Magic Shop in New York City for about four years, and one of the older guys told me that back in the day, Jeff Sheridan came in the shop and saw them selling an invisible deck and pulled the shopkeeper aside, and he was like, you know, you really shouldn't be selling that to the general public. It's too good of a trick. And I always think about that. I was like, if Jeff Sheridan thinks it's too good of a trick, it's too good of a trick.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: I think he's right. And that's the place I got. It was at a magic shop. It's one of the first things that, hey, check this out. And it's just because it's. It's good. Like, you want. You watch somebody do it and it's so, and then you can, you can literally go out and do it the day if you wanted to. It's, it's quite.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: I think especially as somebody learning magic once because it's a skill that's really easy to master and, and it comes along and it's accompanied with innately strong magic. I think it gives you room to improvise, to work on character, to work on scripting, to play, to take chances.
And it's all these things that you.
A lot of times people are so worried about just getting the trick right. But this is time. Once you, once getting the trick right is wrote, then you can add all these other layers that make the magic just as good. And I think it really is a great trick for anybody who wants to become a magician. Is. It's a good one to start with for sure or to keep on stage as an out.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: It's such a good. I just thought that's brilliant because I do want to add some more. How, what, what percentage of your act is. Is cards? Is there, Is it card heavy? Is it card light? I, I guess it depends on where you are. But yeah, you're doing your.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: On stage. I do very little card magic.
You know, I do like a tossed out deck.
I do a gosh, almost no card magic on stage, come to think, you know, very. But walk around. I do tons of strolling events and I do card magic all the time. I always keep two decks with me. One red, one blue. The blue one's always in stack and the red one I let people write on and destroy and, and whatnot.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: What's your, what's your go to stack narrative? The Monica.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know inside and out. I've been using it probably since the book came out. Yeah.
[00:34:25] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: So again, for anyone that doesn't know, because I'm a toddler, I like to explain it.
That stacked deck means it's a deck in an order and you have the order memorized, which allows you to do some insane, insane stuff. If you can do false shuffles.
[00:34:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Because no non magician would ever think that anyone would be crazy enough to memorize the order of every single card in a deck and then spend years of their life pretending to shuffle it so it looks like it so that you can create miracles. Yeah, it's really kind of nuts what we do.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: That's actually the part that, that I'm the most intimidated about is doing the. Is false shuffles because I just feel like that's the that's the hard part is being able to shuffle a deck of cards but keep it in the same order.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
You know, I would say, though, I think there's a. I wouldn't be intimidated by the false shuffles. You know, the number one I, anyone who's ever intimidated to learn a piece of magic, one of the things I say is, okay, well, how, how long are you going to be a magician for? Is this like a few week thing, a year thing, or the rest of your life?
And the answer is always, yeah, the rest of my life. It's like, okay, so then you have time, you have time to learn this move, this technique, this shuffle, you know, whatever it is you want to learn. If you're going to be doing this your entire life, you have time, and it'll be worth the payoff because you'll continue to use whatever that skill is for the rest of your life. But all that aside, there's some really easy shuffles.
You know, like Dr. Leonard Green has, like, he does a circle slot shuffle on the table that almost looks like a wash, you know, but really the cards just kind of stay in a circle and you're just kind of moving them around in a circle.
I'm trying to think of some like, some like obviously like the, the Delgadio or the Einstein shuffle, you know, they take a little more chops. But like, false shuffles generally aren't meant to be a convincer. They're often meant to be a subtlety. So I mean, even just if, you know, when a deck is in stack, you know, the first and last card are negotiable, you know, you cut the cards and it's cyclical. So now instead of starting card number one, it starts on card number 26, but the next one's still number 27.
So, I mean, even just having a deck of cards and as you're chatting, just giving it cuts like this and very, you know, cut thin, cut middle, cut thin just as you're talking, you know, anybody can do that. And like, that's enough to convince somebody or, you know, anybody can run cards. So as you're talking, you just count to five, right? And then you do it again.
And then this time you throw it on the bottom and you continue some cuts. But like, that's something with like five minutes practice you could do. And as you're chatting and just shuffling and, and mixing up cards, and then you give someone the deck and you say, here, name a card. You know, they're not gonna, you know, sure, you're not doing like a very, very super convenient. But if it's as a subtlety like you can definitely. It's where anyway, I, I'm a strong advocate if it's, it's worth learning the shuffles because it's just like, it's like walking around with a, with like a loaded gun. I know that's a taboo, probably expression now, but like, it's just the amount of possibilities that you have with the deck where you, you know, where every, you know the cards that coming, you know, the cards that are on the table, you know, and then you get better at estimating. So, you know, if I know that I can cut exactly 26, I know that I can always cut to the king of diamonds or whatever your stack is.
I know if it looks slightly more than 26 and this looks slightly less, I know it's going to be one. And then, you know, someone can name a card. Oftentimes I can cut or pass right to it. It's just like, it's, it's a really cool skill to have.
[00:38:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I was listening to Joshua J. Said it and so did Craig Petty. Like, any advantage you can get to do, you know, to, to perform, it's worth doing, you know, So, I mean, that makes a lot of sense.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Although, you know, I started adding marked decks and I figured, okay, if I can see the cards and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think just because I've been using stack for like so many years, in fact, I got mark decks when I went to the Castle in Chicago. Magic Lounge, especially the Castle, because I know there'll be some magicians in the audience. And I was like, I want to have every advantage.
I don't think I looked at the markings once just because I was so used to doing it the way that I was doing it, that like, I don't think I looked at markings once.
But that would be another advantage to add.
[00:39:18] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So I have a question.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: How did you end up in Screamboat?
[00:39:23] Speaker B: Oh, gosh.
[00:39:27] Speaker A: Saw that picture. That was like, okay, gotta ask him about that.
[00:39:30] Speaker B: So for those of you who don't know, which is most of you, Screamboat was a very limited release. I think it was only in theaters for maybe two weeks.
Horror film. And it's funny because I've gotten an influx of new friends and fans on social media from the horror world who have found me there.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: Those are fans? Those are real fans?
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Those. Yeah, those are fans.
So, you know, I've done a lot of acting throughout the years and I kind of just Put it on the back burner. But continuing the trend of riding my wife's coattails.
She's friends with the director of this film. So Screamboat is a horror movie that's based on Steamboat Willie, and Steamboat Willie is what Mickey Mouse was based on, but it became public domain, which means that anybody can use it without paying copyrights. So there were two different production companies, and this was one of them that put out.
Basically, it was a horror movie where Steamboat Willie was the killer on the Staten Island Ferry. And it was shot on location on an actual Staten island ferry, the one that's owned by SNL actors Colin Jost and what's his name?
[00:40:51] Speaker A: P.
Pete Davidson.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: Pete Davidson.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:56] Speaker B: And so my wife knew the director.
She auditioned for a role, and she didn't get the role she auditioned for. But then they gave her a smaller role with much fewer lines.
But her role was to be, like, this trashy Staten island girl who's oblivious to all the murders that are happening around on the boat because she's too busy aggressively making out with her partner, who is, like this Russian guy in a tracksuit with his hair slicked back, which was me.
And basically, the way the director who knows her posed this to her, said, well, you know, here's the role. Here's the character we're working on casting the guy you're gonna make out with, but if Ben wants a role, he can do it. And I said, I'm gonna get back into. Act, like, oh, we could hire some hot young model. Or I was like, no, no, I'll do it. I'll do it.
[00:41:57] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:42:00] Speaker B: So I literally got paid to make out with my wife, which is like, talk about a dream job, right?
[00:42:04] Speaker A: You were literally living the dream.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: Yeah. That was super cool. That was a lot of fun.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: Clip that. That's the. There it is. Go home. That's the. That's the.
That's the takeaway here.
Marry a magician actress who can think, who can belt out opera.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: And you just. You're good to go.
[00:42:23] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Learn some slights. And you're. You're. Get a. Get a deck of cards. You're. You're. You're rocking it.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Oh, you know, I have a question I wanted to ask you.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: Yeah, sure.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: I feel like, as magicians, or maybe I won't lump everybody else into this. I feel like as a magician, like, I get such imposter syndrome, and I'm just like, you know, and, like, I'll. I'll meet these magicians and I'll Introduce myself, like, hey, my name's Ben. And they'd be like, yeah, Ben. Like, I know who you are. We've met before. And I'm like, sorry, I just kind of, like, assume. So with that preface, how did you find me? And how do you know who I am? Because I feel like. I don't feel like.
You know, the other day I was in New York, and I did, like, a family party at a club on the Upper east side. Wednesday, and then Thursday I did an event where they rented out Central Park Zoo. And Friday I did, like, a thing in the park at Bryant park, where, you know, outside.
And then Saturday I did an event in Greenwich, and then I got back here, you know, and I was doing gigs in L. A just last night, and I was like, I feel like I'm under the radar and, like, I'm not doing, like, these magic events. And. Da, da, da. I was like, but I'm definitely a worker. Like, I'm working. Like, that much I can say. But I guess that's a long way of, like, how do you know who I am?
[00:43:45] Speaker A: So it's. It's. It's actually really simple. It's the algorithm. It's. So I've gotten to the point where I started by.
By going to Penguin Magic, meeting Eric Tate.
[00:43:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:58] Speaker A: And then I. He introduced me for a while. I was just saying.
[00:44:01] Speaker B: By the way, I didn't know Eric was famous until we performed together. We're like. We were. I. I didn't. I did my first magic convention ever. I had never performed, you know, because I don't consider myself a magician's magician. I'm just kind of, like, doing my thing.
And I performed at. Ben Barnes was booking the IBM National Convention, and he wanted to bring in a lot of fresh faces.
And so, like, you know, like, I've probably been on the Penguin website, like, once in my whole life. You know, like, when I go to a magic shop, like, I'm buying the utilities that I know I need, you know? And, like, so I was just. I like, hey, how's it going? I'm Ben. What's your name? Oh, great to meet you. Oh, what kind of stuff do you do? Da da da da da da da da. And then afterwards, like, my friends, like, Rachel Wags, they're like, you don't know who that is?
I was like, you should probably know who that is. And then, like, I did, like, a quick Google search, and then he was like, everywhere at the. I was like, oh, oh, okay. So people know who you are. Got It.
[00:45:04] Speaker A: It's like what you just said, Rachel Wax. Like, so here's how. Here's the progression is I started then, you know, then Eric Tate got me on to Karissa Hendricks got me onto with Andy Gladwin.
[00:45:15] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:45:16] Speaker A: And then I. So. So I'm starting to build this. This network. I knew who Andy Gladwin was. I didn't. What I didn't know is how easy it would be once you met one magician to meet more. All I had to say is Crystal's like, oh, Eric told me that you might be game for. And then I said, andy, you know, Andy Karissa said you might be game.
So it's this weird thing. So once I started, then I'm start. I'm following people right on Instagram. And I'm going, so Rachel Wax comes up. She's on there. And somebody else said, oh, you should. I talked to Eric Casey, who then says, oh, you should, Rachel Wax. And it's just like this. Like, first I'm going by who's direct me to who, because it's easier to get in touch with people and said, oh, Eric Casey told me to say this. And then.
So by then, now I'm following all of these people, and now all of their friends that they follow are showing up. So you've. You've name dropped in a good way. I don't mean every single person that you've said is somebody I've either interviewed or is on my list to interview, because that's how the algorithm works. The minute because you know them, then I know you from them.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:46:26] Speaker A: So you hear you appeared on my. On my Instagram based on that. And I just basically, I look for, like, oh, my gosh, they're. They're cool. Say, I want to go from amateur magician to pro magician.
[00:46:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: How do you do in. In the world that I live in, I work full time and I've. And I live in Southern Maryland. I live in a very rural place. I can't just go to D.C. or go to, you know, go to New York and meet people and network. What's the best thing to do? Well, let me interview them. You know, like, so.
[00:46:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm growing and I'm.
And maybe other people want to grow. And then we talk to magicians who then say, this is how I grew up. This is what I do.
This is a trick. I really like that I basically meant a lot, and this is how I do this and that.
And then within two months of doing interviews, Andy says, hey, we're doing this Vanishing Inc. Masterclass. We're doing a private podcast. We'd like you to do some podcasts for us. So now I'm meeting their favorite pictures.
So Pete McCabe from the Magic Castle program, I got to interview him, and I'm just meeting people I would never get to meet otherwise.
[00:47:34] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:47:34] Speaker A: So the magic community is insane, and I love it, so. But I want to do more.
[00:47:39] Speaker B: You know, unlike a lot of communities, because it's so small. You know, one of the things that we say at Magic Camp is, like, it's, you'll meet your heroes. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of other industries and fields, there's a good chance you'll never actually meet your heroes. But, like, you know, I've met Lance Burton, I've met Jeff McBride, like, all and, like, multiple times, because it's a small world. Like, all you have to do is, like, go to a magic convention. You know, it's really kind of unreal how accessible people in our, in our world can be, you know?
[00:48:14] Speaker A: Yeah. In, in March next year, I'm going to Comclub. It's so Matt King, John Archer.
So basically, Matt King is having all these comedy magicians, and he's having people gonna go to his house and he's gonna teach us all comedy magic.
[00:48:32] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:48:33] Speaker A: Jonathan Archer is going to be there. Yeah. It's going to be insane. So it's like, that's how easy it is to meet your heroes. All you got to do is just keep your eyes open. But here's going to be here is going to be. Who's at the conclave? It's the Comedy Magic Clinic.
Las Vegas March is going to be at Matt King's house. It's Matt King, John Archer, David Williamson, Rob Zabrecki, Derek Hughes, Mike Cavaney, Nick DeFatte.
[00:49:00] Speaker B: I don't, I think DeFat.
[00:49:01] Speaker A: DeFat. And then R. Paul Wilson.
[00:49:04] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:49:04] Speaker A: They're going to be. Literally, you're gonna, you're gonna go to, they're gonna drive you from the, from your hotel to Matt King's house, and then you're gonna basically sit and talk about magic.
[00:49:15] Speaker B: That's amazing.
[00:49:16] Speaker A: The greatest.
But that's just how great. Like, you know, you go to a magic convention, you're gonna meet, you will meet your, your, the heroes.
[00:49:25] Speaker B: That's so cool.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: So that's good.
[00:49:27] Speaker B: I mean, man, what a, what a convention. I would do that.
[00:49:31] Speaker A: I, I, well, I, it came up, I immediately put a down payment on it, and then the next day was sold out.
[00:49:37] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: So I was afraid Actually, because I. It was like a few hours in, I was like, oh, no, I probably missed it. It probably one. I was probably one of the last people.
Because it was that kind of.
[00:49:47] Speaker B: If you have a routine that you can get up on its feet and get it seen by those people so that they can pick it apart and give you ideas, man, there. I mean, there's no price tag in the world, but it's like my favorite magic. He's just.
He's also. You know, I remember seeing his show in Vegas as a kid and then seeing it a second time.
And the amount of things in his show that you think are. Are improvised, that are actually scripted is mind blowing. That just like the way he pulls off these once in a lifetime moments every single show.
[00:50:24] Speaker A: I heard that he had that ability to do that.
[00:50:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, just stupid stuff where I'll have someone, like, sign a card and they sign it on the wrong side. And he, like, makes a joke about, like, you know, in a less crass way about, like, what an idiot they are and how for them to find it and, like, how nobody does that. Like, that's why you always find on the other side.
And then I saw the show again and they did it again, and I was like, oh, he's freaking directing them to do that.
[00:50:51] Speaker A: Brilliant. It's been a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to share your magical journey with us.
[00:50:58] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:50:59] Speaker A: Appreciate it. And you should not have imposter syndrome. I also have imposter syndrome.
It doesn't go away, but you just, you know, it's.
Everyone has it.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's.
[00:51:12] Speaker A: I think if you don't feel that way, then there, you know, you might have a God complex. And in that case, you're probably some kind of, like, Durgeon.
[00:51:19] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:51:20] Speaker A: Shout out to my virgin friends.
[00:51:24] Speaker B: There's a lot of magicians who do have God complexes, though. You know, I find that there's two types of magicians, you know, like, there's.
There's magicians who do magic for themselves, and there's magicians who do magic for other people. And I think the.
The difference is subtle, right? Because I do magic because I feel like I have something really special to share, and I want to give that as a gift to people, and I want to make them feel awesome. And in return, that awesomeness comes back to me, and then I feel awesome, which is subtly different than I do magic so that I feel awesome.
Right. Because you're missing the in between steps. Of I'm doing this for someone else so that they feel awesome, which in return makes me feel awesome. And there's a lot of people who are like, how can I do this to build myself up and to feel all powerful and in control and. And to make my ego so people can see how. How great I am, you know? And I think you can tell when you watch magic if people genuinely care about the people they're performing for and if it's like an ego thing or if they're just kind of like that conduit for connection to. Between the magic and the audience to make things happen, you know, so. But I think as a result, there are a lot of egomaniacal.
Egomaniacal. I don't know the right word.
[00:52:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:52:58] Speaker B: Ego test. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:53:04] Speaker A: You're absolutely right there. You find them everywhere. So if Ben's stories have you believing that, maybe you can turn your bedroom magic kit into a career or at least a hilarious birthday party. Smash that subscribe button. Give this video a like to keep the magic train rolling and share. Share it with friends who could use a little wonder in their life. Ben Nemser on Instagram or TikTok or his website, Ben nemser.com. he's the guy who stunned Jeff Gordon and Martha Stewart, who we never had a chance to talk about. So we'll have to wait for that.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, next time.
[00:53:32] Speaker A: And remember, magic is about making people feel awe and connection. So go out there, practice that card force in the mirror. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time.
Sam.
