Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Welcome to the magician's workshop. I'm Dr. Todd, a lifelong magic enthusiast and it is my fish and it is my life's purpose to prove that the art of magic is for everyone. Whether you're a hobbyist, a collector, a performer, or simply someone who loves the wonder of a great illusion, this podcast is for you. Join me as we dive into the art, the craft and the mystery of magic, talking to the creators, performers and industry experts who bring the impossible to life. Because magic isn't just for magicians, it's for all of us. Now I'm really excited to introduce our guest this week. Bill Herz is a renowned corporate magician celebrated for his unique blend of comedy and magic that has captivated audiences worldwide. He founded Magic Corp. In 1987 to meet the growing demand for his performances and special event expertise. Bill has dedicated over 25 years to performing at corporate events. Annually, Bill performs at more than 200 corporate events, offering Taylor performances that range from interactive standup shows to intimate close up magic. His engagements span the U.S. canada, Mexico, Europe, China, India and Thailand. As a two time recipient of the International Magical Performers Award, Bill's expertise extends to designing special effects for Broadway shows, major motion pictures and television commercials. Bill is also the author of Secrets of the Astonishing Executive, published by Avon Books. His performances are characterized by audience participation, humor and unforgettable wizardry, ensuring each event is truly special.
So, Bill, thank you. Welcome to the show.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: Thanks for having me. I wish I believed half of that, but that's.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: You come very highly recommended from your daughter. As a person that followed in my father's footsteps. That's a, you know, that's a big compliment right there.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: Well, there you go.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: That's how you know you did something right. If, if somebody that knows you the most wants to do what you do.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Well, she's, and she's really good.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: So, yeah, she really knows her stuff. And I guess growing up around magic really, really helps.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: It's, it's pretty, you know, I mean, when you have, you know, the best magicians in the world at your fifth birthday party, it's, you know, it's.
Yeah. And I mean, you just, everyone that's, you know, at our house all the time is the, the who's who of the magic world. So it's really fun.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: That's amazing. We're going to start with the beginning and the same thing you have to, you have to ask every magician what first inspired you to get into magic.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: I got a magic set when I was about 8 and I said this is the coolest thing in the world.
And really had fun doing it and just got in, just took it to school and showed my friends and thought, this is cool. And started doing birthday parties, which is kind of the first thing that you do. And just got more and more into it. I was just engrossed by how much fun it was.
And then, you know, I mean, at that point it was, excuse me, still about, you know, wow, what a cool trick. The way this works. And hadn't gotten into the, the meat and the potatoes behind what really makes magic work. But excuse me, at that point, it was just a really cool trick that did, you know, or tricks that I could make a cane appear. That was my first magic trick. And all the kids are like, wow, that's cool. So then every.
I met a guy who became my partner who was actually just passed away fairly recently, but ended up being a great card magician. I mean, really great card magician that all the underground guys knew.
So, you know, every Saturday we'd be at the magic shop every Saturday, you.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Know, and that would be.
That's tannins in New York. Right?
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Tannins in New York. Exactly. Every Saturday we'd go there and then there was a place called the cafeteria where all the magicians would go and hang out afterwards. And as you mentioned earlier when we were talking, it's a really welcoming community if you're serious about it, you know. And it's funny, I.
My college roommate was the GM of the Red Sox and he told me that he could look at a kid's baseball swing at age 12 and tell you whether this kid has potential to go further. Not if he's going to make it. I mean, that you don't know. But the 99.9% who can, you know, hang it up right then he could tell. I can do the same thing with magicians.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: I can meet a 12 year old or a 14 year old and go, okay, this kid's in it for life. Or this is just a passing phase, just by the way you're thinking about it. And you, you get involved and how passionate you become in the questions that you're asking. And you, you really learn how to figure out who's in it for life. And they become lifelong friends.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: There's a thing called Tannen's Magic Camp, which is great for kids.
And I actually was the first counselor. It's now 50 years old.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: And it gets packed with kids every summer and each summer they return and they become lifelong friends. It's this, you, you know, and we all help each other. I, I was on the phone with, you know, two 14 year olds today and a 20 year old and a, you know, just where it is, a very giving community. Once you say you're serious, you know, if somebody comes up and says, hey, teach me a trick. No. But if you show me that you're serious and you, you're. You really want to learn this? We'll, we'll pass on anything we can.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: That is amazing.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: It's, it's, it's the only club in the world, I think that nobody cares what color you are, what race you are, what sex you are, how much money you have. If you have the same passion, you're in the club. Simple as that.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: There's just a certain thing that people that do magic, seriously and even, even serious hobbies, they just get each other. That's when I knew I kind of found my people.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: The joke I, I still tell to this day is I came home from a show late one night and my wife said, how come you're so late? It's 4:00 in the morning. And I said, well, the car broke down on the way home and this beautiful woman came up and gave me a ride. And we stopped and we had a few drinks and one thing led to another and that's why I'm so late. And my wife said, don't give me that. You were doing card tricks.
And that's the truth, you know, I mean, we're so passionate about it. You know, we stay up all night showing each other, you know, the newest, and we all work with each other. I mean, among the pros or, you know, we all have our groups of people that we, you know, consult with and work with and hey, how about trying this and do this? And you know, we're, we're in it to help you to make everybody better.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: Nice. When did you go pro?
[00:07:44] Speaker A: So I went to graduate school, as you mentioned, and I had a real job.
I got a degree in hotel and restaurant administration and an mba. And I thought, well, maybe I want to open magic restaurants. And then I realized I don't want anything to do with the restaurant business.
So I had a real job for 6 months after graduate school at a marketing firm. But the end of that six months, I'd used up all my personal days, all my vacation days, all my sick days while I was off doing shows. And I said, well, this isn't fair to them and it isn't fair to me. So I decided, okay, give it a Shot and started. I'm going to try and do magic full time.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Fantastic. You founded Magicorp, which. Congratulations. For over 40 years, by the way. That's a fantastic achievement. Any business that lasts 40 years is just, especially in this day and age. Lucky, lucky. Well, luck and skill. Even the luckiest business won't survive without good leadership.
But I know that Magic Corp specializes in providing customized magic performances, keynote presentations, and workshops for corporate events, trade shows, and meetings. So the company focuses on using magic to enhance business presentations, engage audiences, and teach communication skills in an entertaining way. I feel like this is an extremely interesting, extreme, extremely interesting business, because I've never seen anything like it before. What was the origin of creating Magicorp?
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Luck. And I really mean that. So my first idea, besides performing was. And we talked about this earlier, was I always found magic was the perfect icebreaker. And so my wife and I put together a magic kit for dentists because we thought, what a perfect way to relax people, to show that you're a human being, that you're not there to just shoot them up with Novocaine or whatever. And. And so we put together a magikit designed for dentists.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: And we took it. There's a big convention called the Yankee Dental Convention. I don't know if that's still going.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: But I'll have to look it up.
[00:10:01] Speaker A: Okay, I'm pretty sure it is still going.
And we took it there and took a booth, and it did fine. It didn't do great, because what I learned was, and this was sort of like a great lesson that half the dentists didn't get it. Meaning they were like, I don't want to do magic tricks as where the other half, who saw it as a great vehicle to relax their patients, to communicate with their patients, would say, oh, this is great. You know, my waiting room is packed. We already have a treasure chest where kids can pick out this, and we've got MTV playing and we've got this going. And I'm thinking to myself, well, of course your waiting room is packed, because you're. You're being more than just a guy who fills cavities or a woman who fills cavities.
But it was surprising how many of them didn't get it. They were like magic tricks at a dentist's office. No, no, no, no, I'm not. You know, and they were on to the new toothpaste or. Or whatever. They just didn't get it. And I kind of wanted to point out, why do you think this dentist's office is so full. And yours, you're looking. You know, they're not.
And then. So we stopped that. So I started doing shows. And what happened was I was doing a show for a company over in England, and it was called Liberty Life Insurance. And the chairman of the board said, hey, you're performing tonight. Will you teach me a trick that I can do during the meeting to get them excited about tonight? And I said, well, yes, but if we're going to do that, let's make the trick about something that you're talking about.
So he said, well, here's what my message is. I said, great. And I created something for him. And it went over great. And I came home and I was doing a trade show for Fujifilm, and I said, you should have seen this guy in England. He wanted to do a trick for the meeting. To me, it didn't even dawn on me. And their eyes lit up, and they said, hey, we have a sales meeting at our trade show. Could you teach us tricks? And I was like, well, yeah, sure.
And so that's exactly what I did. And it went over great. And a week later, I was doing a trade show for Fuji. I mean, for Chevrolet.
And same thing. I said, you should have seen the guys at Fuji. And the guy in their eyes lit up, and they were like, wow, we want that, too. Can you teach? Okay. So I came home and I told my wife about this, and she goes, you know, there's a business there, and she's the brains in the outfit, make no mistake.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: I've heard I have it on good authority.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: Yes.
And she said, there's a business there. So we. She was CFO at hbo.
She was in the entertainment business. And so we took the summer and we designed this brochure called From Magic Corp. Productions, saying the Magi and the Corporation Port. And our tagline then was, where the the magic of business meets the business of magic.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: Ooh, I like that.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: And the whole idea was that we taught executives tricks and illusions that they performed to communicate points, but also to humanize them in front of their, you know, their employees or customers or whoever. It was also a great way to come up to, you know, perfect icebreaker. And our first student was Bill Gates, who I still do shows for, and the Wall Street Journal. Back then, everybody read the Wall Street Journal, and I was on the front page in sort of the fun column. And the next thing was the chairman of A and W Root Beer said, we're trying to promote root beer floats. So I said, well, let's do that. Let's make a root beer float. So at their sales meeting, a root beer floated across the stage. You know, wow. And so it took off. Once we were in the Wall Street Journal, we were in Fortune, we were in Forbes, we were in every talk show, New York Times, you name it. The phone was ringing off the hook. It was crazy.
And what happened was I couldn't do. And it was. I mean, it was really strange because I had these CEOs, I'm talking major, you know, AT&T and major companies going, we want you at our meeting. And I'd go, I can't make it because I'm in. Oh, you can make it. We'll send our jet for you.
It was crazy.
And okay, but even still, I couldn't handle all the calls that were coming in. And what I learned was that companies didn't go, oh, okay, well, we'll wait till next year. They said, well, sorry, you can't make it. They'd hang up the phone and they'd go find their own.
And 90% of the magicians had no idea how to be in the corporate world or how to teach a trick or how to design a trick. But I had plenty of friends who were really good at it.
And so I said after. And what happened was they'd call me and go, we're never doing that again. We got this magician, and it was horrible. And with magic, unlike any other art, if you have a bad experience, you're done. If you get a singer that's flat, you go, we better get a better singer next year. With magic, all magicians suck. So after hearing this, I said, you know what? I'm not available, but let me get you the right person.
And so I started booking friends of mine, and, excuse me, most of them hate the business end.
So a bunch of them started saying, you know what? You're booking us a lot. Just handle all my calls.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: I'll send them on to you. And we said, okay. And that's how it took off. And we could become very picky. And we, we had at the beginning the best of the best. And we still have a very exclusive roster of amazing performers who are perfect for the corporate market. And that's all we do is the corporate market. We, we've never kind of strayed from our lane. We don't do colleges, we don't do cruises, we don't do. We're just starting to do a. You know, we do a bunch of high end private stuff and we're doing a bunch of weddings and stuff like that. But that's all. I mean, we're not. We're not the every, you know, magician for everything. We're all corporate.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: So how.
How is performing for a corporate audience different from performing for a general public audience?
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Well, it depends. I think it depends on who you ask. That's. I'm really comfortable with that group because that's sort of the group I grew up with.
First of all, they're thrilled for, you know, I'm on during the day, during meetings. Well, what would you rather hear the chief financial officer or watch a guy do some really cool tricks?
So it's win, win. Especially if I can tie it in and make their subject, you know, or sometimes it's just entertainment at night.
But I understand the market. I understand what they're going through. I can make fun of the bosses. I can make fun of the CEOs. I can make fun of the whole business environment because I know it.
And, you know, I mean, that's one of the things is I'm not intimidated by that market at all. In fact, that's where I'm most comfortable. It's. To me, it's a more sophisticated market. You know, you've got people who are thinking, I used to do Las Vegas shows and not to knock them. They're great.
But, you know, I mean, it's not the most sophisticated audience all the time.
And that there, there. I mean, there are great performers who are amazing in Vegas who know how to play to that audience. You know, it really takes time to learn to play to your audience and know how you fit in with that group.
[00:18:45] Speaker B: Yeah. As one of my magic heroes, Matt King, who you know really well, he seems like he's perfect in Vegas.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: He is perfect in Vegas and he's perfect for corporate. There are not a lot that, you know, he's a. I mean, he's a great entertainer. He is one of our sort of what we call exclusives. In other words, we have a bunch of exclusive entertainers that if you want them for corporate events, you have to come through us, you know. You know, you can contact Mac, but he's going to send you to us. And yes, I'm very close with Mac. I spend all my vacations with him and all, you know, it's family.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: So crazy.
[00:19:21] Speaker A: It's family.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: I mean, as you, as you said, Magic Core is absolutely loaded with heavy hitters. I, I'm going to tell everybody to definitely go check out the website magic core productions.com and check it out because not only is it amazing to see who is available for these corporate shows. These absolutely amazingly talented people. But you. The. Some of the articles you have are really interesting too. It's fun to look through and see like, oh, man, I could hire one of them someday. That's really cool.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Right. And we work with everybody from David, you know, I mean, the only big name that we. We never booked and they're not alive anymore is Siegfried and Roy. But coming back, you know, I grew up with Copperfield. He was at the magic shop every Saturday like I was. And so we book him for corporate and Penn and Teller. Teller used to sleep on my room in college. We went to the same college.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Was that. Was. He was learning to be a. A language professor or language teacher.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Yeah, right. He was a philosophy. Right. But then that's when he had hooked up with. It was. They were actually called the Asparagus Valley Cultural Society. What?
And there was a third guy named Ware, but he dropped out and then became Pen and Teller.
Wow. You know, it's a really. You get to know everybody. David Blaine I've known since he was nine years old. You know, I mean, what I mean, so it's, you know, a very tight little world of the people who really work. I mean, it's a big community and obviously you can't know everybody, but among the pros, we pretty much, you know.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a very small group and it's.
That's one of the things that's really interesting. It's. Well, it's kind of like a quarterback for a football team. There's a lot of people that can throw a ball, but there's only a certain amount of people that can do that. There's only like with 32 good quarterbacks in the world.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: But it's also knowing who's the right person for the right group.
And that's where our specialty is, is there are certain performers who, you know, we say one size does not fit all. I mean, yes, anybody can entertain, you know, but Matt King, using Mac King is a great example, is a great magician, will entertain anybody. But if it's a high tech group, he's not the guy. He's. And he'll be the first to tell you that as where we represent a team called Digital Deception, where it's all high tech, or a guy named David Gerard who used to work at Google.
So they're going to understand that.
It's sort of like with a dentist. If you're talking to another dentist, you've got your own terminology. Mm.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: You can speak in your own code. Almost.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: And so somebody, you know, somebody that's performing for the right group should be able to speak their language also and make, make jokes about AI or what, what. Whatever the topic is of the, you know, if it's finance, what, whether it's pharmaceuticals, whether it's whatever. The other thing is we can be, if I'm on during the day is I can be the devil's advocate and bring up points that, you know, that they want to ask, but they can't ask. I can't, you know, and sometimes, you know, it's all planned out. I'm not, I'm never going to embarrass anything, but I can take on many roles.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: That's interesting because of how, because you keep such an exclusive group. How do you add people to the team? Do they come to you? Do you search them out?
[00:23:12] Speaker A: Well, that's a good question. First of all, nobody just pops up.
It just doesn't happen.
The radar is out. I can tell you exactly who we're looking at for the future.
And they're usually young.
We get asked probably once or twice a week by somebody, can we join the roster?
[00:23:33] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: And the answer is no, not usually. Unless there's something that really makes you different. I always say that I can explain what makes this magician different from this magician with one sentence or two sentence and I can know that this person is going to be right for this market or this group. So they have to have a few things that are non magic related almost before they're even sort of considered. They have to be, you know, be able to sit through a dinner and carry a conversation about what's going on in the world without being controversial. They've got to understand the industry that they're talking to. They've got to learn a little bit about the industry.
I've seen so many speakers go in and not know who their audience is and I'm always like horrified. But take 10 minutes and learn it. It's not. Yeah, this isn't brain surgery, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.
But so that's one thing. The other thing that we're looking for, so we want some people who are comfortable with people who can sit there and have a non magic conversation about sports, about anything that's going on in the world that are, you know, the main thing is I look for performers who, after you see them work, your first reaction is, boy, I'd love to have a beer with that person. Whether it be to see more magic, whether it be to See what makes that person tick. There's gotta be something interesting about the person.
The second thing is they've got to. I mean, there are more great, what we call finger flingers or great technicians who will put you to sleep or who have egos that are, you know, they believe their own press.
Forget it. Don't want them, you know, I want people who are great entertainers who. But also great magicians.
Matt King is a perfect example. Great entertainer, great magician, passionate about his magic, passionate about the way it's done.
And that's true with everybody on our roster.
We have fun with it and we might be really funny, but we work really hard on it and we're really serious about it. But I'd much rather have a great entertainer who does magic than a great magician who's a little bit entertaining.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: Wow, that's. Yeah, that's fantastic.
Now to switch on the other side. What are normally corporate bookers looking for when they call you up?
What do they want?
[00:26:32] Speaker A: First of all, they trust us. They know we're not, you know, if I don't have the right person, I'm going to go, wait a year or here's the person, the perfect person for you.
Sometimes it's me very less and less these days, and that's fine.
So they're looking for.
Look, the first thing I tell our people is we're in the customer service business.
They've got, you know, if you're in the, you know, I wrote a book for magicians called Leave youe Ego at the Door.
And the whole idea is if you want to be famous, corporate is not the way to go.
Corporate will come later, after you're famous, but corporate is not the way to go. If you want to make a good living, corporate is the way to go.
But the corporate planners are looking for ease, simplicity.
They don't have the time to rehearse. Two hours. You have to go, you know, we call it commando performances. Okay, there's the stage, you're on after dinner. Or no, there's not going to be special lighting. There's not, you know, you've got to be gung ho and ready to go without an ego.
And if the, you know, a million times they'll say, okay, we want you on after dinner. And the CEO is going to get up and just say five minutes of comments. And then we want you to come on and do 50 minutes and you go, great. And then the CEO comes on and talks for an hour and a half. I've seen this a million times.
Well, any Smart entertainer is going to go, these poor people have been sitting here.
I'm going to cut it down to 15 minutes and make it really entertaining and say goodnight. And that's what a really good corporate entertainer planner wants, is that you're totally flexible.
There's no, oh, I didn't have this. I didn't. No excuses.
You're going to get there. We send what's called a rider, which are requirements.
All of our performance riders are super simple.
Mine is literally five things. And 90% of the time I get there and they don't have those five things because they've got CEOs and executives and 4, 500 other people. They're not worried. They want me to be as easy as it is. And when I hang up with meeting planners, I always say, I'm going to be the easiest part of your whole program. You don't even have to, you know, consider it done.
And that's what makes us work. And that's the way all of our people are. We realize that a, we're replaceable, even though it's a great show and the show might not be replaceable, but I don't want to make more trouble for anybody a million times. I'll go. Our hotel block sold out. Do you mind? We have to put you up at a hotel, you know, half mile. No, I don't care. You got ego, you know, you got people who are going to yell at you for not staying at the hotel. I couldn't care less. Don't worry, I'll take a taxi. You don't have to send a car for, you know, I mean, we're going to make life super simple for you.
And that's actually. And the, and the, and the nice thing about it is money is not the object, not the thing that they're worried about. It's the, the hassle factor.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: That makes sense. Actually. One of the things that you are known for is teaching your CEOs to do tricks. And you've actually had a whole book on magic for executives. Are there any notable corporate students that have taken the magic further than you expected? Like, learn more, really more talented than you would have expected them to be?
[00:30:23] Speaker A: Oh, many. Yeah. The ones that you know. It's funny. I just gave a speech, which I don't usually do, out in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, two weeks ago, and they asked me to talk about what it's like to be a professional magician and some of the trials and tribulations. And it was a very successful sort of business, older business, community that I was talking to.
And one of the things that I realized is that if you ever see a CEO who says, I'm going to wing it. I practiced what I was going to. I practiced my speech for a day or a half, you know, not word for word, but I knew I had notes and I knew exactly what I was going to say because I've seen a million CEOs go, oh, I'm just going to wing it. Well, guess what? It always looks like they're winging it, as were the ones who are really prepared.
It shows. And it shows that you really care about your audience. So, yes, I've had some CEOs who, I've said, you know, if this, if this corporate thing doesn't work out for you, come on, you know, I mean, Bill Gates is really, he was, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's funny. A lot of these guys become very electric and charming and as were some, you know, and that's also like a good tip off is I'll have meeting planners or CEOs or whatever, if I'm doing close up during cocktails or something, go, oh, don't use me. I don't want to be, you know, embarrassed or anything. Not that I embarrass people. And I think to myself, man, are you losing, missing an opportunity to become a human being in front of your audience to show that you have a sense of. They think of you sitting up in your glass tower giving orders. And guess what? That's if they're. So if as where the CEOs who say, yeah, I want to be involved and do whatever you want, I'll play along. I'm part.
Those are the ones who people love.
One of the things I learned years ago, we used to make a lot of CEOs magically appear to start meetings out of a big illusion or something. And I learned, always find out if they like the CEO in advance, because if they don't, don't bother doing the trick. Because the audience is like, bummer that person is here.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: How do you find out? How do you ask it? Oh, and they will just tell you off the record.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: I say, what is, you know, what are the employees?
I say, off the record, what do the employees think of, or the customers think of this CEO or whatever?
And they said, and they'll usually tell me that, oh, they love this person or they're afraid of this person or whatever, or they'll never do what you want to do. And one of the biggest and longest standing ovations I ever remember was doing a meeting for IBM. This was years ago. The chairman was a guy named Lou Gerstner.
Everybody knew him. And I said, I'd like to make him magically appear. And they said, oh, there's no way he'll do this. Well, I actually had known him from some other stuff, and I said, well, let me talk to him. And all the. His handlers were like, no, no, he's too not going to do it. And I said to him, and we had discussed it, you know, a day or two before, I said, this is the best thing that you can do to show that you're a human being. The place will freak because it's the last thing that they expect.
And he said, okay, I trust you. And we did it. And I still have the video somewhere. But, I mean, it was the. The whole place went nuts. I mean, you know, 600 people just screaming. That's. You know, they never expected him. And that's why it worked so well.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:34:44] Speaker A: Is he was willing to take a chance and, you know, not worrying about feeling a fool or saying something stupid or. But show I'm a human being. It's not about the trick. It's about breaking down that wall.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: So I've had lots of CEOs who are really good, and then some who are just so stiff and so dry. Usually they came from a financial background. There were more. The money crunchers versus the salespeople who are stiffer. But, you know, I mean, it's. Yeah, I've had some amazing performers.
[00:35:25] Speaker B: Well, I mean, speaking of interesting people, you have a great story about performing for the Supreme Court and having a judge right on money. I love that story. I'd love for you to retell it.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: Did my daughter tell you that?
[00:35:40] Speaker B: No. I was listening to another podcast, writer's speakers podcast. I heard that story. I'm like, I gotta ask about this.
[00:35:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it was for the Supreme Court and Scalia.
I did a trick with him signing a bill, signing his name on the dollar bill.
And I said to him, right after he did it, I go, by the way, you know, that's illegal.
And I said, luckily, something like that. Luckily, there's no police here, but you should know better. And he literally stopped the show in a kind of a. He had a great sense of humor. I wasn't a fan of his politics, but.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Right, right, same.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: But a great sense of humor. So did Rehnquist, by the way, and he literally took two or three minutes to explain to me and the entire audience why you are Legally allowed to write on your money.
And he basically said his point was, look, it's your money. As long as you're not out to defraud the government, you can eat it if you want. But the funny thing was he took literally three minutes to explain what I just took. And then he talked about the statue, you know, whatever.
And at the end of it I said, so what you're saying is it's legal? And he goes, yeah. And I go, so now I see why you guys only do eight cases a year because it took so, you know, and the place, you know, burst out laughing. So, yeah, I've watched amazing experiences all over the world and you know, I consider myself so lucky. I've met so many amazing, you know, people and I don't take, I'm not a big picture taker with celebrities. My only rule of taking pictures is, is if I know that when they die, they're going to be on the front page of the New York Times.
That's, that's my rolling up.
[00:37:37] Speaker B: That's your okay. That's how you know you can, you want to get a picture with them.
[00:37:40] Speaker A: Right. Otherwise I don't care. And even then I'm not, you know, I never publish them, I never put them out. I never talk about shows publicly or, and frequently. I almost daily now I have to sign nine non disclosure agreements for everybody in our. We're not allowed to talk about who, who we're performing for.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: That. That makes sense.
[00:38:06] Speaker A: Makes a total sense. Yeah, yeah. I remember it was 2008, there was a big crash, market crash. And I'd been hired by the newspapers, press were all over looking for ways companies were wasting money.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: Oh no.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: During this time, and I was down at the breakers in Miami, beautiful in port in Palm beach, beautiful hotel, doing a senior meeting for Morgan Stanley.
And I was about to go on and the chairman, the chairman, guy named John Mack, who is the chairman of Morgan Stanley comes up and he goes, hey Bill, go have dinner at the bar on us. And no show tonight. And I'm like, okay, I'll do whatever you want. But how come he goes, we got wind that there's a Wall Street Journal reporter sneaking around and the last thing we want to be is on the front page of the Journal tomorrow going, oh, they let go of 30 people. But everybody enjoyed the magician, you know, I mean, and they were right, you.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: Know, I mean, yeah, so can't fault the logic.
[00:39:17] Speaker A: No, not at all. And it's, it's funny. We do well in, in down times because if the meeting's still going on. They still have some type of entertainment.
Everyone in the audience has hired a magician for their kid's birthday party. So they think, oh, the kid's magician is $300. Yeah, spend $300. I don't care about that. Yeah, you have a band up there going, wait a minute, they let go of five people and they've got a band up, you know, So I always played on the fact of, you know, the perception of spending a lot of money, isn't there?
[00:39:59] Speaker B: Yeah. All you need to give the magician is enough money to feed his rabbit and he'll be happy. I also know that you have a favorite performance and your daughter told me to ask you about this, your A list Hollywood dinner that you performed at Gregory Peck. I'll set the stage, Greg, the home of Gregory Peck for 30 guests including Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, Frank Sinatra, Johnny Carson, Lucille Ball, Angie Dickinson, Jimmy Stewart, Walter Matth, Jack Lemmon, Kirk Douglas. Oh my gosh. What was that like?
[00:40:38] Speaker A: Well, it was mind blowing. It was.
I should really tell the story. I'll tell you the story because it's pretty funny. And I, you know, so I went to school with Gregory Peck's son Tony and they, his parents would come visit and I did a trick and I don't normally, I'm going to tell you things that I wouldn't normally tell sort of a lay audience, but it's, it's worth it.
There's a psychological thing with women that if you ask them to think of a card, not a lot of the time they're going to say queen of hearts.
This is pretty common known fact. So I was doing a little private show at a restaurant for Gregory Peck and his wife Veronique and two or three other people.
And I did that very neat pack.
Think of a card. I took one out and I said, what is it? She said, queen of hearts. I said, well, that's the one I took out and flipped it up. Little did she know that had she said another card, I would have just gone, well, I took out the queen of hearts, insert it in the deck and it'll be next to whatever you, you know, I mean, I had numerous outs and so it happened a second time. So Tony Peck said to me, this is, you know, my mother has been calling, you know, for weeks saying she can't get over that they were coming back for. And this is our graduating year in college. They were coming back. And he said, would you. They're going to have a little party for me. Would you mind doing some tricks? My parents fit. I was like, no, I'm glad to. And he had a bunch of his other friends, and I realized, oh, I'm gonna have to do that same trick.
So I did something, which I never do, which is I said to my friend Tony, I said, who's going to be at the party? And he said, oh.
And he mentioned some of the kids we were in school with, one of which was kind of a very good actor. And I said, oh, great. It'll be fun. Party. And I went to his dorm later that night and said, hey, we're going to be at a dinner tomorrow. I hate doing this, but if I asked you to think of a card, say the nine of diamonds, and then act surprised when I get. And if I have to do it again, do the four clubs, I said, okay, no problem.
So we get to the dinner, and Vernique Peck goes, you have to do that trick again. I'm like. I pretended like I didn't know what you used to. What trick was that? I just thought of it. Oh, yeah, well, let's do it with. And I said to this guy, Mike, we'll do it with you. Now. I was set up to do it, and I name a card, and he goes, nine of diamonds. I go, well, that's the one. She goes, that's unbelievable. Do it one more time and I'll never ask you to do it again. And I was set up for twice.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: So I did that. That was unbelievable. We graduate about two months later, and I get a call from Gregory Peck, and he said, hey, we're having a party in California. Will you come out and do it? And I'm like, yeah, of course I will.
And I thought the party at that time was for Tony and his California friends.
It didn't dawn on me what the party was. So I fly out to Los Angeles, and we're in his.
I'll never forget this. I mean, there were some amazing stories that night. Gregory Peck's Kitchen. And he's making Tony and I peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And I'm like, oh, this will be really fun that we're having. I said. And it dawns on me, I don't know why it hadn't before. I'm gonna have to do this trick again.
So I figure, oh, I better find out who's gonna be at the party so that I can set somebody up thinking it was gonna be Tony's friends.
And he goes, oh, here's the guest. Listen. He pushes it towards me, and he Goes, you'll know most of them. And I look at it, and I went, oh, my God, right? This is a Wednesday night. And I. A Wednesday afternoon. I went to San Francisco for Thursday and Friday and came back Saturday.
And it was just every. For dinner, I sat between Cary Grant and Fred Astaire.
[00:44:51] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: I went off and talked magic with Johnny Carson, and Michael Douglas was doing some tricks at time, and, I mean, they were the best. And the coolest thing was a lot of people know that Johnny Carson, who I became buds with.
Johnny Carson was very good with a deck of cards. I mean, not. Not mediocre. I mean, really good. He could do some really great slights. He. He and Dick Cavett, who I just saw at a thing like two weeks ago.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: Oh, really?
[00:45:25] Speaker A: Grew up together doing magic. Oh, wow.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I knew Johnny Carson was. Was good at magic, too.
[00:45:31] Speaker A: Dick Havitz is serious, if, you know, very serious, loves magic, had magicians on the show. And so, you know, but maybe people in your audience don't know. I had. I was doing what's called the close up show, where everybody was sort of near me and I was doing a lot of sleight of hand and stuff. And I started with what's called a sucker trick, where you show a card and you say, okay, I'm gonna take the four of clubs and put it in the deck where everybody sees it's the seven of diamonds, and you want them to go, no, that wasn't the four of clubs. And you go, of course. And now you turn it over and it is, you know, through sleight of hand, it is now. And you want them to, you know, you want them to go for the bait. Well, I started doing this trick, and they were all too polite, except Carson started, who I had not met at this point, started playing my. No, you didn't do that.
And I knew exactly what he was doing. He was becoming my foil, which was the coolest thing in the world. He made me look great before I even met him.
And I knew darn well exactly what he was doing. And he. He knew I knew what he was doing, but he made me look great in front of everybody else. And they're all going, oh, Johnny, you're the magician. And, you know, it was really cool. The other thing that was really funny that night was so Carson and I after the show, and it was a really fun show after dinner.
They had a world there. I didn't know this.
So Carson and I went off into another room and started playing magic for, you know, a While we came back and everybody's singing, you know, just that list that you said. Gregory Peck grabs me and he goes, okay, Bill, we got us. Everybody sings at our party. And I'm like, no. If you heard me sing, I don't sing. He goes, oh, yeah, Everybody here sings. He goes, do you know T for Two? And I'm like, yeah. He goes to the piano player, he says to me, we'll do a duet. So there I am in front of all of these people doing a duet with Gregory Peck of Tea for Two. And of course, it was horrible. But at the end, everybody cheers and clap. You know, it had nothing. You know, I mean, it was just pure fun.
[00:47:47] Speaker B: That's insane.
[00:47:49] Speaker A: The other thing that I. I mean, there were a ton of. But I remember during dinner, I was doing a few more, and as I said, Gregory Peck was on one side and Cary Grant was on the other. Cary Grant was the president of the Magic Castle. I mean, he was another guy who was seriously into magic. Yeah. Wow.
[00:48:07] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:48:08] Speaker A: A lot of celebs that you don't realize are. Steve Martin's great with a deck of cards.
[00:48:12] Speaker B: That makes so much sense, though. Like, I would. Absolutely.
[00:48:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Tommy Smothers was really good with a deck of cards.
[00:48:19] Speaker B: That makes a lot of sense.
[00:48:22] Speaker A: After I would do a trick or two, Cary Grant would go to Fred Astaire in his English accent. Fred, you've got no idea how difficult that is. And I'm thinking to myself, you're telling Fred Astaire, who practices dance stuff, you know, I mean, is the master. It takes practice. I don't think you need to tell him that. You know, I mean, so it was a. It was a truly great night. You know, I've had some great, amazing stories like that.
[00:48:49] Speaker B: Wow. So I. Because I can't top that, I have to move on to topics completely. I hear you like pranks. And a little birdie told me I need to ask you about a certain prank involving chicken, chewing gum, and wasabi.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: Well, that's how we got into it.
[00:49:08] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:49:09] Speaker A: How we got into pranks. It was.
But I'll tell you, the prank that was sort of like our all time favorite.
[00:49:16] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:49:17] Speaker A: Which was still my favorite. I mean, we've both sort of. We have this rule that when somebody joins the roster, we're going to pull a trick on them.
[00:49:25] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: And we'll go to great extent to do it.
We'll even do it to people who aren't on the roster just because it's fun. But this was. We were doing a show At a place called the Greenbrier in West Virginia. It's a big old Southern resort where lots of conferences were held. And I brought in a lot of performers for this one night. It was for Conde Nast magazines. And I brought in. The first guy we did it to was a very. Well, probably the most well known magician guy named David Williamson.
[00:49:57] Speaker B: Yes. Yep.
[00:49:58] Speaker A: One of my favorites. We were staying at this horrible motel because the Greenbrier was sold out. It was the diviest motel, but we were all 22 or three. We didn't care. We just wanted to have a good time. And so one of the guys, a guy named Mike Cavendy, at the end of his act, he produces a live chicken. And we didn't know if David knew that.
So we put in this diving motel. We put the chicken in his room that when he checked in, there was a live chicken in the room.
He walks in and, you know, so a bunch of us are at lunch and he comes over and we're like, hi. Hey, great. You know, so and so, like, everything okay? Yeah. And we're like, your room okay? Yeah.
He was not gonna let in on it. And he knew darn well we were pranking him even though he didn't know. And that whole weekend we were just pulling pranks on each other because we were so bored. It was. We were there the day before, and that's how it started. But then the pranks got serious.
My favorite prank, which is actually published some places, was we were doing this tremendous show.
And this had the who's who of the Magic World on it. Do you know the name Lance Burton?
[00:51:15] Speaker B: I've heard of him.
[00:51:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:17] Speaker B: Yeah. He's actually one of my favorites because I grew up on Nickelodeon and he was the Nickelodeon. He did the Nickelodeon Halloween special with Mark Summers that I still watch every year.
[00:51:29] Speaker A: There you go. So Lance, who used to have his own Las Vegas show, we had the who's who of on stage and, you know, 15 of the best closeup magicians in the world. And this was a great financial firm who. This is about the only client who ever did this and really meant was. They said that we have about a thousand people or more. It was 1500 people.
We want the best show you can put on. Money is not an object. And I've had many people say, money is not an object. And when they say that, I know money is always an object. But these guys meant it.
They said. And I said to the planner or the guy, the boss, do you want me to review everything with you? And put together this great show. He said, no, I want to be in the audience. I just want to watch a show. You tell me what it costs and it's done. That puts real pressure on you.
[00:52:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow.
[00:52:26] Speaker A: And it was great because I did get. I said, really? No budget. And I mean, it was an expensive show back then, and we did it a few years in a row, but the first year, so it was Lance Burton and a bunch of people. So everybody was. The show was on a Sunday night and everybody came in on a Saturday. And I said we were all staying at another hotel. And I said, hey, when you check in, you're going to get a little welcome packet that's going to have your rehearsal time, it's going to have phone numbers, and it's going to have the program that everybody is going to get tomorrow night on their chair. You know, 15, 1700 people.
And what they didn't know is that each person got a program that was specially designed for them.
And when they went up to their room, like every other performer, they'd open the program to read their bio, because we had bios of each person.
Well, when you read your own bio, it was really mediocre.
And then everybody else's was glowing.
I mean, it was like. It wasn't bad. It was just like, you know, I mean, Lance Burton's was me. Almost could get like, you know, Lance does some really good tricks with boxes and birds. You know, he's been on TV and you're going to really wonder how he does it. And then you read the next person and it was like, star of this, this, this, this and this. You know, was awarded this and this and this. But each person had a really crap about them.
[00:54:07] Speaker B: That is so good.
[00:54:10] Speaker A: We came down, so we had a 5 o'clock meeting and everybody comes down and everybody's like, furious, pissed. And they're all. And I'm like, you guys all seem so tense and tight. And I heard one guy say to another guy, one of the other magicians, I can't believe what he wrote about me. And the other one, you, Yours was fine. Mine was the bad one. And somebody else overheard. He goes, what are you guys talking about? And then they put two and two together. It's now a collector's item.
[00:54:41] Speaker B: That is so good.
[00:54:43] Speaker A: So, you know, so we'll go to the big extent to. I could go on for hours with practical jokes. Yeah, we're very serious about our practical jokes.
[00:54:52] Speaker B: Oh, that's amazing.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:55] Speaker B: We do not have enough time to get into how great Your books are. But you wrote Secrecy the astonishing, Astonishing executive magic for the business world and leave your ego at the door. Highly recommend. They're actually sold out on Penguin, but you can find them. You can find them online.
[00:55:12] Speaker A: I didn't even know they're still around. Yeah. The secrets of the astonished executive was written with Paul Harris, who's a great magician, Great, great thinker. And we did, and it's got some really cool stuff. Leave your ego at the door is much more for magicians, for who want to get in the corporate market.
But the other one has got some great tricks that I still do.
[00:55:34] Speaker B: Oh, amazing. Okay. So definitely, I always say, you know, pick up. The nice thing about books is you get the tricks, but you get to put your own personality behind it, as opposed to. I love Penguin magic lectures, and I've learned a lot from lectures, but it doesn't allow you to think of your own character as much as a book. So I'm getting more into books.
[00:55:54] Speaker A: Books are the. Are the way to go, I think. I think anybody who's been around for a long time just for that reason, it's not telling you what to say. You have to come up with your own presentation. And frequently I'll watch a lecture, if it's with a trick, and I'll turn the sound down.
[00:56:09] Speaker B: Oh, okay, so.
[00:56:10] Speaker A: Or I'll get the gist of it. And, you know, if it's. If it's something that's really good because I'm always adding new stuff and learning, and I'm still that kid who is so excited, you know, can't wait for the package to come.
[00:56:24] Speaker B: You know, I mean, amazing.
[00:56:25] Speaker A: I'm that kid.
[00:56:27] Speaker B: And I have one last question. What is your answer to when somebody asks you how did you do that?
[00:56:34] Speaker A: Who it is and why they're asking?
I will never come right out and say it. I might lead them down the garden path and be completely full of it. I might say, you don't really want to know.
It's not important, you know, did you enjoy it? I don't think people really want to know.
[00:56:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's just. It's just they. It's. It's almost like a. Like, hey, that was great. When people say, how are you doing? They don't care how you're doing half the time. It's just their way of saying hello in a different word.
[00:57:08] Speaker A: I couldn't agree more. So, I mean, I remember once years ago, a woman really bugging me for literally calling me for days. And finally, really, it's about, you know, and I told her, and she goes, why did you tell me? And that was the last time I, you know.
[00:57:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I did that once and I regretted it because it was the look of sadness.
[00:57:28] Speaker A: Right.
[00:57:29] Speaker B: On somebody's face when they find out the secret sauce. It's not as nearly as amazing as just being amazed.
[00:57:35] Speaker A: Great thing about magic is it's the only thing left that lets you be a kid.
The literally the only thing, you know. I mean, you can get any information you want to take, you know, off a computer or Google it or whatever, but when a guy turns the four clubs to the eight of hearts in your hand, I'm a kid again, you know, I mean, it's just pure fun.
[00:57:59] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:58:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's, you know, nobody's trying to say I have a special power, you know, I'm trying. Trying to say I just want to entertain the hell out of you. I hope you had a great time.
[00:58:09] Speaker B: So I highly recommend, again, recommend checking out your website from Magic Corp. It's Magic Corp productions dot com. Great articles. The list of talent is absolutely insane. I know you can be found at corporate events. All you have to do is go become a president or a CEO and. And then hire you guys for some amazing entertainment. Um, Bill Hurst, thank you so much for your time. It is.
[00:58:33] Speaker A: Thanks for having me. My pleasure.
[00:58:35] Speaker B: It's truly been an honor for you to spend some time with us. I hope one day that I will be talented enough to be on your roster. And if you, the listener, are looking for some fantastic entertainment for your next corporate event, please check out magicorp. And if you like what we're doing here, please like and subscribe on YouTube so you can watch us in glorious video and follow and rate the podcast so we can spread the word that magic is for everyone. I am Dr. Todd, and this was Magician's Workshop and we will see you next time.
