Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Liz Tunkel is a magician and production designer whose work blends illusion with immersive storytelling. Whether she's performing or designing environments for live and filmed experiences, she approaches everything with a magician's eye, where every detail shapes perception. Her magic is intimate, thoughtful, and deeply human, focusing less on fooling and more on creating moments of connection.
Today, we're diving into her creative process, her dual life on stage and behind the scenes, and how design and deception influence each other.
This Tonkle welcome. Is that.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. You have to send me that intro because that was like.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: I will send that to you by email. Yeah, there's actually. That's the short version. I'll send you the long version.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: So thank you for coming on with me. I mean, you. You don't know me. I didn't know you, but you just agreed to talk to a stranger online. I mean, that's. That's.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Well, magic's awesome, but. But I do. I mean, my favorite thing in the world is to meet people. So usually when people reach out, as long as they don't look like a bot or someone with bad intentions, I' down for it.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: Yeah. When I read your bio on your website, you said, and you kind of like LGBTQ empowering women, I was just like, that's my. That's my speed. My wife's gonna love that. Like, we are. We're kind of a down with the patriarchy kind of group.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Sounds like me. Yeah.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So we're just. I was watching. I was like, yeah. Hell, yeah, dude. This is. This is my. When I interviewed a drag show magician, I did. I could not think. My wife could not be happier. I was just like.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: She's like, yay.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: I was like, this is great. I love this.
And Mystify Magic Festival next year.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Oh, are you going?
[00:01:31] Speaker A: I'm gonna try.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: I try every year. It's just. It always comes down to do I have the time, and I've got four kids, and one of them is, like, 16. Yeah, one of them's 16. And I want her. I kind of want her to go, because I think she gets.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: She loves kid, you know, a lot. Well, I was meant to be there last year, and I got Covid, so I had to cancel, like, the last minute. But, I mean, I wasn't performing, but I was just gonna go and check it out. But I think a lot of kids go, and it's really neat. Like, this adorable young lady magician that I met at IBM this summer went, and she was like, it was the best thing that I've ever experienced.
And she was like, maybe she's like 15, so I think it's pretty rough.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: That's what we want to see. Like, that's the. This is to happen.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I was like her Taylor Swift at IBM. It was pretty great.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: That's so cool.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: But okay, so first things first. Let's talk about how you got into magic in the first place.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Um, great question. Well, so I've always been very interdisciplinary, which I think for most of my life was seen as a. A bad thing.
But recently people have come to appreciate it. And I think because of my interdisciplinarity, I think, like, I had been sort of. Or I. I'd always been interested in magic from afar, but I think it took me a while to realize that a lot of the art that I was creating was in the realm of magic. But yeah, I grew up always as a performer. Like, literally my mother said, like, I'm Jewish, and when I was like, you, you go on the bmo, it's just like the. The stage of the temple when you have your baby naming. And my mom was literally like, I think it was like a week old, and I just lit up. Like, I've always just loved to be on stage, love to perform. And so as a child, like, I was really into performing very seriously into dance and things like that. And then when I went to college, I kind of wanted to also explore doing things like behind the scenes so that I could kind of create everything. So I went to film. Film school.
And then after. And. And while I was at film school, I got really interested in production design. And then basically a couple years later, I decided to go back to graduate school to study scenic design and then also studio art. And that was sort of like a way for me to build my own solo performance work. And so I was building like a lot of work that was more for like a gallery type setting.
And in those, like, pretty wild feminist performance art pieces, I would have sort of magical moments and like, you know, little illusions or different things. But I don't. I didn't really categorize them as such. And I didn't really know, like, I knew scenographically how those things were happening, but I didn't really totally approach it from the position of a magician. And then postgraduate school, I kept making that kind of work. And then I wanted to start this project that was like an opera that I would perform only with my hands. So I did residency for that. When I was kind of like, you know, my, my Process as an artist is usually very like, I have sort of archetypes I'm interested in or certain ideas. And then I sort of just like follow that through research and image.
And when I was working on this, I was like, well, what is performance that you do with your hands?
And I was like, oh, sleight of hand magic. I think I shouldn't. So I started like watching some videos and learned some like tricks in this like workshop production I did of this piece. And then I started taking classes at the castle. And sort of like almost immediately when I started doing that, I was like, wow, I feel like my point of view and my voice is not in this space at all.
And it would be really interesting for me to try and build a magic show. And so I took classes for a few years and didn't really have like any like I had.
I had like a 15 minute bit that I worked out. But after a few years I was like, I have this. I, you know, like, I'm really into animals and I would love to build a show about animals.
And so sort of my process when I was learning magic too is just like similar to my art practice of like, like this like classic trick. Like what if I was trying to say this completely opposite thing, but through these props and these slights. And so I would sort of like reimagine them from my point of view and it just became really exciting and I was like, and. And also sort of, I don't know, it's very hard to make performance in the art world because there's no infrastructure for it. Like, it's exciting because there isn' and there's a lot of possibility. But at the same time, from like a logistical standpoint, I would like work so hard on like an idea for a year or two and then do like one show.
And I would also be like the, the show that I did is the art object. So I have to, if I do it again, it has to be a little bit different.
So there was something really exciting about shifting my perspective too. To be like, in magic. I could do the same show for the like rest of my life. And I could also just keep making it better.
And then it's like there's a built in audience. Like people are way more excited to go see a magic show than a performance art show. It has a lot more massive feel. Definitely.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Okay, I could, I could see that,
[00:07:16] Speaker B: you know, and so, I don't know, it just sort of felt like it really never would have thought of putting myself there. But it really Made a lot of sense. Sense. And I think also that magic is kind of the intersection of design and performance.
And so that was really exciting. Like, I feel like it really. I can use all of my skills there and. Yeah, and I think too, like, my personality on stage, like, really lends itself to audience interaction and improvisation. And. Yeah, it's just been really exciting. And it's been also really exciting to sort of then let my magic practice import or my design practice, because so every. Everything that I design at this point, I'm like, oh, well, I know how to do this thing better because I know magic. And that's. It's just cool. I feel like there's more. More of, like, a symbiotic relationship now between my personal practice and my design practice. And, like, I feel like I keep, like, gaining more skills and information on both simultaneously.
And it's just been exciting too. Like, I feel like in life, sometimes when you put yourself in the right sphere, things happen. And I feel like, you know, obviously doing anything like this takes a long time to build a career and all that, but, like, I feel like people respond to my photos or the things that I'm doing and are excited by them, and so it feels really rewarding. It doesn't really feel like I'm doing it into a vacuum in the same way.
And. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's been really great. I.
I think magic is also, like, I love to learn and I love putting myself in a space where, like, I can, like, endlessly learn new things. And I feel that way about magic. And I also, like, it's very easy for me in terms of magic to have, like, a don't know mind because I'm like, I've only been doing this, like, in my adult life. There's so much I don't know. And so it's still really exciting to, like, see different people perform. Like, look for new material, things like that. So it's just like, I'm not bored at all with it. If anything, I still, like. Like, I mentioned earlier that I performed at the IBM convention this summer, and it was. It was so humbling and amazing to be there because I was just like, wow, there are so many people just doing amazing things in magic. And, like, you can't possibly know about all of them, even though it's a pretty small world, especially when you're looking across the globe. And so I just felt really inspired. And I think it's really cool too, because there's so many people in magic are kind and like, Want to, like, care about the art form and it's like.
And spreading it. And so I've also found some really amazing people who have, like, taken the time to invest in me and, like, teach me things. And that is really special. Like, that doesn't happen in every sphere.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: No, it doesn't.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: So, yeah, that's a really long answer, but that's some magic.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: I mean, it's. So that's definitely different than the world of. Of movies and performance arts that you're, you know, originally from. Like, I think for. I don't know a lot about film, I did more the stuff. But when you say production design, which means different things in theater and film, but, like, what would you say? What is the responsibilities of somebody who, like, who's in charge of production design?
What do you do for the art?
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Yeah. So the simplest way that I usually break it down for, even like some directors, film directors who don't understand, is that I am responsible for everything you see see in front of the camera, except for what the actors are wearing. I pick the. I mean, obviously in concert with other people that, you know, I pick the location, I pick what things the actor is interacting with, like props. I pick the color of the room. I pick, you know, so it's really like visual storytelling and telling the story through space. So.
Yeah. And. And I think most of the time, the production design that I'm really impressed by is very hard to even notice. Like, I love things that look super naturalistic and, like, really feel like the real world.
So it's kind of cool when you, like, I think whenever our people. I meet people, and they've never really heard about production design. I'm like, okay, well, the next thing you watch, just, like, think about that. That, like, all that stuff, like, most of the time it was an empty room. And even if it wasn't, you know, the production designer found that room. And then they thought about how in the beginning of the film they're in this house, but at the end they're in a different one.
So it's. It very much relates to, like, a scenic designer in theater. And that's definitely how I approach it is, like, at the beginning of the play, the set looks one way, but by the end there should be a transformation.
Even if that's super subtle.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: Do you take that into your magic show as well? Do you. Do you look.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: How does that translate? Because I think that's huge.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: What good magic tricks are, like, all good magic tricks, they have a beginning, a middle and end. And look different, you know, even the simplest thing, like a standard card trick, obviously the cards are shifting and like more clearly with an illusion. And for me, when I built my show, Magic for Animals, it was really like, how can I really think about it as a full hour show and what's happening, you know, from beat one to the final moment and how those things all shift.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Wow, that sounds complicated. I'm going to need to work. Work harder.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: I mean, it just takes a lot of time. I mean, like, I. I don't know if you know this word from your life in the theater, but like, I think like, dramaturgy, like, is so important.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: And that's my. One of my favorite words.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: I strive to be a good dramaturge myself.
[00:13:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: I don't always achieve it.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Like the good. The good, like all good work that you see.
Even like, you know, a 20 minute close up act. Like, I think should have like a dramaturgical.
There should be.
The artist should be thinking dramaturgically of like, why am I starting with this trick? Why am I ending here? And I feel like the best acts that I've seen do that.
And so that's what I'm always pushing myself to do is like, how can I, like, make that better and better?
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Okay. Fantastic. Talking to you is so easy. Thank you. Like, this is the easiest. I barely. This is. This is best interview ever.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Aw.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: It's.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: It.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: No, you said it's a. It's a vegan magic show. Right?
So tell.
Okay, I, I don't. I'm like, I. I was vegan for like eight months and it was a rough. It was a rough time for me. But what does, what does that mean?
[00:14:30] Speaker B: Lifestyle and it. You know, I think part of the idea of my show too is to like, meet people. Like, I think one of the reasons that I really wanted to center my show around, like, animal activism is that as someone who cares deeply about animals, I feel like most of the, the, like, I don't want to say propaganda. Most of the, like, you know, campaigns around animal activism are. The imagery is really violent and they're really, I think, alienating. And I was like, I'd like to make a show that invites people in and makes people like, you know, again, we're like all human. That means we all have different needs, we come from different places. And like, how can we just all think about how we might treat animals and each other a little bit better? But that doesn't mean none of us are going to be perfect like that. That is unattainable. And I think if you're expecting like black and white, like, you're either perfect or you're not, we don't really get anywhere. But I think it's really important to try to meet people where they're at and like, be okay being in a gray space.
And so that's like how I've approached the show. And I think that, you know, I call it vegan magic. Is the show all vegan? No, like, and I call that out in the show too. It's like I have a silk scarf, you know, or things like that. But like, I want to be honest about that and honest about my relationship to those things. And, and I think that through like, vulnerability and honesty, that's actually how we create change. Because I know even for myself, when I've gotten too wrapped up in identity or like, like, am I doing the best for, or am I like an A plus person in terms of my behavior, etc, then I kind of stall out. But if I'm willing to be like, okay, I'm trying. I'm making these changes. I like, care about the world around me.
That's how like, I actually improve. My behavior is like acceptance. So I really, like, I know people I don't know. I just, I don't want. The last thing I would want is someone to be like, oh my God, I'm not.
I eat meat every day and I feel like I'm terrible and I can't come to your show and I feel bad and I'm like, no, you're a human. You're doing what you have to do to survive. We live in a capitalist, hard to function society, hard time right now. Hard times. Yeah. And so it's like, you know, the best thing I think we can do to change the world is like, invite each other in and make space, space for each other. And so like, I think what, what I find or my goal and like what is most exciting to me is like to create like the energy in a room when I perform that everyone feels okay and like accepted on a certain level. Because I also feel like a lot of magic is alienating because a lot of people, you know, use, you know, antiquated language, like, don't. Inclusive in their language. And, and I think, and I know a lot of people that have felt alienated at magic shows or in magic spaces. And so like, part of my like, activism and work is to like make that a space of safety and inclusion. I mean, sometimes there's definitely points in my show where I like, joke about that and I Push people a little bit. But, like, I, my hope is that at the end, everyone feels, like, warm and like, acceptance.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: The best, the best, Best people that I know at the audience interaction do say, if you're, if, like, you're going to possibly offend people, but you've gotta be. You do have to push it a little bit. So I think I, I, I, it's. And those are the best people in the business, and people love it. So it is one of those, like, you know, you do have to push it a little bit or you're not, you need to go further. I, I don't know. I don't know how to explain.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: And I feel like my character on stage and also like Liz Tunkel in real life definitely is like a, you know, like, I'm, I make jokes and point poke fun at people, but I think because I also am very vulnerable on stage, like, there's a certain level of, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, like, interrogating myself too. And, like, I also don't. I want you to feel like you're in on the joke, not that I'm, like, pointing you out. And, like, it's very important to me. I mean, my show has a lot about consent in it, too. And so, like, when I, when I pick someone from the audience, like, I'll be like, oh, you there in the ball, like, you know, the blue beret. And if I'm like, do you want to come up on stage? And if they're like, no, I'm like, that's okay. The show's all about consent. Like, who would like to come up on stage? Raise your hand. So don't. Like, I'm kind of poking fun at the fact that they don't want to come up, but I'm not going to make them, you know, So I agree. I think that, like, you kind of do want to have honesty, and I think that gets people on your side, but I think the way you get people on your side is to be vulnerable yourself.
[00:19:36] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. And speaking of which, if you had to describe your character on stage, some people have, like, three words that they use to describe your character. But how would you describe your Persona on stage?
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Fashionable, for sure. Love the outfits, by the way, I would say. I mean, people have called me, like, a Valley girl, but I guess there is sort of like a little bit of this, like, bubbliness, like, a little bit ditzy or a little bit, like, cheeky, but that's sort of mixed with, like, some kind of biting humor. That shows that like I'm, I think pretty intelligent. So there's like, I think there's like a high, low quality to my personality of like I'm like high fashion sophisticated, but I'm also kind of like a little bit airheady or something.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Very good.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Like a chanteuse. I don't know.
But definitely, like, I always, when I, I always think of her or my Persona on stage a little bit like a burlesque performer. It's like I'm like, I'm in total control, but I'm also a little bit like silly.
I don't know, I've never, I've never put it in three words though. I should probably do that. But I definitely like to get into that mindset quickly.
And I also like to not be too fixed about it. I mean, I think that that's what, what is kind of nice is I think there's a lot like, especially in my full show, there's a lot of diversity to like the way I act on stage or perform. And I think the other thing too is I'm very comfortable, like admitting fault on stage. Like if I mess a trick up, I'm like, oh, okay, that didn't work. Or, you know, there's like a nonchalance or sort of like a natural like kind of quality. And I really like that in comedy when people are just very like up front.
Like, it's like. So I feel like there's sort of like a nice binary between like the artificial kind of like I'm performing, I'm like, you know, a little sparkly lady on stage, but then also being like, I screwed that up kind of clown.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so this seems kind of banal now, but what is your, what is your like, go to opening routine?
I don't get into like. So I just really. I love openers. I just, and I love to. I feel like that tells a lot about where your perspective is as to what, you know, if you come in and do a gypsy thread or you know, six card repeat or whatever. But what kind of is. I should also ask what kind of magic is your, your act? Is there any cards or is there rope? I mean, what's, what do you do?
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Yes, you know, I, I do pretty much like stage semi parlor magic, like all standing.
I mean, I've done close up, but the stuff I do lately and it's a lot of like little illusions that I've created and then, you know, I have, I do like a ver. My own version of vino aces aka McDonald's aces. I do some other stuff, but my opener. I mean, most simply, like, I always. I do kind of like to come out and, like, play with the audience a little bit. So the thing that I typically do is I have.
It's actually like a. I think it's a Tony Clark little glove to, like, streamer routine. And I do that with caution tape that I've made that says, like, caution, independent female magician. Because I feel like that sort of, like, sums up my act a little bit of, like. I'm, like, coming from, like, a strong feminist perspective, but I'm also kind of pointing fun of that. I also am acknowledging that, like, you're probably not used to seeing a female magician. And, like. Yeah, I feel like it's. It's kind of the right tone, and it's also. It gives you a chance to. And with that, I kind of, like, dance a little bit. So you kind of get used to, like, my Persona.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: Yeah, you get those quirks right out there. So they know what they're getting into.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's right away, like, I'm a woman. I'm gonna perform magic for you, so get on board.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
Do you use anything in your production design for, like, your background or, like, how do you. What kind of environment are you in when you do this show?
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I wanted to build a show that was really pretty easy for me to tour and, like, move around. Like, I still think that that could be easier.
There's a lot to learn in magic in terms of that. But so I don't really have, like, big scenic graphic elements. I mean, maybe if one day I get to do, like, the film special, I could add some of that in. But right now, it's usually, like, because I. I'm able to perform it in so many different types of venues that it's really more that I have, like, two stools and a table, and they're kind of, like, covered in. In sequins, and there are some pink, like, faux silk covers on some of them. But it's pretty simple. Like, I would say the main scenographic element is my costume, which is, like, very sparkly and, like, kind of a showstopper. So I feel like I am the main image of the show.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And I said this earlier, and, I mean, it is the. The. Your pictures that you have are some of the best, I think, like, professional photos of a performer that I've seen. I look at it and go, I don't know immediately you're a magician, but I know, gosh darn well, you're a hell of a performer. You can tell from your composition. I mean, it's very good. Your outfit. Where did you. Did you make that yourself? I mean, how. Like, where did you get that? Because it is a wild. It is a wild outfit. It is so cool looking.
[00:25:33] Speaker B: Thank you. Well, yeah, I appreciate you saying that about my photos. I mean, I feel like I really try to use the skills that I have to the best of my ability. And because I'm a production designer, like, I really understand composition and, you know, color and things like that. So I tried to make the most of that when I make all my materials in terms of my costume.
Honestly, a lot of times when I'm making work, that's the first place I start is costume. Because I'm really into fashion and costuming and have studied costume design too. And so my costume, it was the first thing I thought of before I knew anything about the show. I was like, I imagine this costume with this really gorgeous fish on it. And it's kind of gone through a couple different iterations as I've developed the show and like, adding things into it. But I had this idea and I have a very talented collaborator, Stephen James, who's an amazing costume designer and like, has worked on costumes for Beyonce and Britney Spears. And I went to him and I was like, can we make this costume? And originally I had a really quick timeline, and then over the past couple years, we just keep, like, altering and changing it. But yeah, it was really, like a true collaboration with him. Like, I had the idea and then he really made it sing and added, you know, added all of his special magic to it. And then also, like, in some of my promo material, I have another costume that I production designed this movie, Marcel the shell with shoes on. And I was nominated for an Art Director's Guild award for that. And I was like, okay, well, I get to walk the red carpet and have this moment. So, like, what if I made a. Or designed a dress that had, like, shell sleeves?
And so I went to Steven, I was like, stephen, can we make this, like, you know, black tie shell dress? And he, along with my other main collaborator, Nick Rodriguez, who like. Or Nick Rodrigues, who helped me design my walking handbag and some of the other illusions in my show, him and Steven worked together to design this dress. And then I was like, okay, well, I've. We've put a lot of work into this dress. I should shoot a lot of marketing materials with it. Cause it's so gorgeous. But it is, like, pretty much Impossible to perform in because the sleeves are 3D printed and really involved and like, they limit your arm movements. So it's really like a red carpet, high fashion photoshoot dress. But it is not a performance dress.
[00:28:10] Speaker A: The dress that you normally wear, does that have any limitations to what you can do in it or is it,
[00:28:15] Speaker B: I mean, okay, like, I literally can't sit down. Like, it's pretty fun. I mean, over the years, it's definitely gone cotton more. Like I can sit down a little bit, but I definitely could not sit down to perform in it. Yeah, and that's always one thing, like, at the top of my show and I'm like setting my props on my body and stuff. Like, I have a very specific order that, like, I have to put on my shoe. Like my. I wear like 5 inch platform shoes. I have to put those on before I put on my skirt because I can't sit down or even bend over. And that's the thing too, in the show. It's like I can't lick certain things at certain points in the show. I cannot bend over to, like, pick up.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: So it's like, okay, well that lives there now.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: Yeah. But besides that, it's like, it's pretty, you know, I've made it very performance friendly and like, done alterations to it to make it more performance friendly. And I do think, like, when I, like, I'd like to build a new show and, you know, I just am. So, like, when I first built magic for animals, there was a lot I didn't know about magic and especially like, the rigors of performing all the time, things like that. And I just feel so much more knowledgeable now and how. And like, that's what's been cool too. I kind of gave myself this project to like, really learn from and it's been kind of amazing. I mean, I started developing the show, I don't even know four or five years ago. And so, like, it's just been a really. I remember when I did my show in Edinburgh, I met with this magician and he was saying to me that he was like, after you do 50 shows, your show will be good and after you do 100, it'll be great.
And he was so right, like, wow. I feel like I don't remember when I hit the 50 show mark, but, like, there is a severe difference. And now I'm like on my way to 100.
And like, the last show I did was by far the best one I've ever done.
So it's just, that's the thing. It's like to be, I feel like when I was a younger artist, I mean, it's good to not know how much work these things are because otherwise you probably wouldn't do that.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: Probably never do it. Yeah.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: But like, it's just unbelievable the amount of time you have to put in to get good at something. But it's, it's also, I think when you get to like a point where you have some perspective on that, it's really rewarding to be like, wow. Like, I don't, I don't know, I found in the past year, sort of like taking that breath and being like, wow. I've like learned a lot and I still have a lot longer, a lot more to learn.
It's very, it is kind of rewarding and exciting.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: That's awesome.
What would be your. If you had. Do you have one piece of advice to a young girl or really anyone that saw this and was like, I want to do that. What would you, your advice to be to them? Silly question.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: I think the most important thing if you want to be a good magician is to be a good performer. And I think that that's the edge that I have on a lot of people is I know a lot of people are really skilled at magic and know everything. I've read every book, but they don't know how to perform. And I think that's where the focus should be is on performing and writing. And I think those are much harder things to learn.
So, like, I think if you're a young person who wants to be a magician, like, just start and be like, I want to write a five minute routine and I'm going to figure out what that is. It could be one trick, but let me really work on like again, the dramaturgy. Let me work on what it is and why am I choosing this routine? Because I see so many magicians be like, I love. You know, I'm not even good with all the names, but it's like, I love ropes.
Let me do a rope. But it's like, why, like, that's what's successful about El Robo. It's like he's the rope guy. And like it works so well with his personality that he does ropes and he figured that out early on and that's why he's like built a name for himself. But it's like figuring out why you're doing stuff. And then again, if like you write this five minute routine, do it as much as you can.
Be like, okay, my grandparents are coming over, let me do it for Them I have like, you know, this play date, whatever. Kids do these. Let me try it for them. Because also, also a good routine and a good performer can do it anywhere. Like, for instance, like my magic show, I'm very much like my dream audience is an adult audience where I can, you know, talk about more adult material, things like that. But I've also done my show for kids, and I've also done it in like an old age home. Like, I think if you really know your Persona and like, you make things that are universally approachable, then like, I'm always doing like, okay, this is the edit for a family audience. This is the edit for an older audience. This is for Gen Z. It's that kind of thing. And I think that, like, that is both, like, from a writing and performance perspective. So. So, yeah, I think a lot of people, especially queer people, women, non binary people, feel a little, like, daunted or feel a little overwhelmed about the magic world because so many of the people in it are like, well, I know every trick and blah, blah. But it's like, don't worry about that part of it. Like, worry about who you are and what you want to say, and then you can find the magic that fits into that. So that would be my suggestion.
[00:33:57] Speaker A: That's really strong. That's absolutely strong. And that actually goes with. Just. When I was in Vegas, I saw all of these guys. They all performed in Matt King's backyard. And every single one of them did. I'm pretty sure. Every single. Yeah, almost every single one of them did a routine that you could buy right now from a magic store. Every single magic trick they did, you could learn online for a couple bucks. But it was. Every single one did it for 15 minutes and it was hilarious. And so you really can. You don't. The magic. That's what I've learned, is that you don't have to find the world's best magic trick. You just take a good magic trick and make it your own. And all of a sudden it's like, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: I mean, totally. Like, all of the best magicians, they're doing the same slights. It's just what they bring to it. And of course, there are people that have figured out, you know, unique props or unique things. Little like my show, it's like I figured out my own little illusions or whatever, but it's really what I do with them and how I approach it. So I think that that's the most important thing.
Absolutely.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: All right, Liz, are You ready for the rapid fire round?
[00:35:07] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:35:09] Speaker A: Don't think about it. Just let it. Let it. Let it rip. Okay. All right.
Three, two, one. What is your go to guilty pleasure snack? Before or after a show?
[00:35:18] Speaker B: Well, it was french fries, but I have some health problems, so now it's probably pizz pizza.
[00:35:24] Speaker A: Totally awesome. If you could perform for any historical figure, who would it be and what trick would you show them?
[00:35:29] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. That's such a good question.
Probably Marina Abramovich, the performance artist.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: Okay, that's the first I've heard that.
What would you show her?
[00:35:44] Speaker B: That's a great question.
I would probably show her my venoasis routine because I think it has a really interesting story.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: Perfect. What's one trick you wish you had invented?
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Great question. I mean, I love the.
The pro routine I do on my show is like a version of Arabian beads. I think that's pretty awesome. I love the mascot moth.
[00:36:07] Speaker A: What's the mascot moth? Hum. A few bars.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: Like a famous. I'm actually. I'm working on a project that we might try and do that, and I'm really excited.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: 100% do that.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: What?
[00:36:18] Speaker A: You should 100% do that.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: Then it's. It's a very old illusion. Jim Steinmeier writes about it a lot.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:36:27] Speaker B: I forget who created it. I'm bad with names, but it's been. I don't even know Spanish. Where in its original presentation, basically there was, like, a woman dressed as a moth, and then they would kind of wrap her in a shroud and she would completely disappear. Pierce. And then they would.
The.
They would lift the shroud and, yeah, it would all go away.
[00:36:52] Speaker A: Okay. I heard about something.
[00:36:53] Speaker B: I don't know if I'm explaining it right, but it's basically an incredible vanish. And all of the big illusionists, like, definitely, like, do versions of this.
[00:37:03] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: But it's pretty spectacular because it doesn't have a vanishing cabinet or anything like that. Like, you can have, like, a bear stage.
[00:37:12] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: Last one. When you're not doing magic, what's your favorite way to unwind?
[00:37:18] Speaker B: God, I love reality tv.
I love the traders. It's my dream to go on the train.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: Wow. You'd be so good on that.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: Thank you. I love board games and I love to play, like, poker.
That's one of my other dreams, is to be a professional poker player in Vegas.
But, yeah, so I. I love. I love competition.
Yeah.
[00:37:43] Speaker A: Okay.
There you go. Liz, thank you so much for your insights. Liz Tonkel. Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your insight about production design and all this other stuff. It has really been awesome to talk to you. I learned a lot as I learned something from everyone I talked to. But I just want to thank you for appreciate you for coming on. So thank you very much and thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. And for anyone watching this, you can see her show when's the next when does your show run?
[00:38:11] Speaker B: So we can I have some other things in the works. I'm not sure my next show but if you follow me on Instagram at liztunkle, that's where you can keep abreast of what I'm doing.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: Awesome. We well, we will and if you please follow the follow like subscribe all that good stuff hit the bell and all that blah blah blah blah blah. So Listunkle, thank you very much and we will see you next time on Magician's Workshop. Bye. Bye, everybody.
