Chris Wheel Shows us "Wheel Magic"

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Magic. My name is Dr. Todd and I interview magicians. [00:00:02] Speaker B: And I'm Chris Wheel and I am a magician. This, this is Magicians Workshop. [00:00:25] Speaker A: Hello, magical friends. Today we have a great one because we're talking to Chris Wheel. Chris Wheel is a magician who has been amazing audiences for 15 plus years. His show is full of comedy, magic and amazing illusions. He's been praised by critics and audiences alike and he is sure to leave you wanting more. Welcome to the show, Chris Wheel. Yay. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Hey, thanks for having me. Dr. Todd. Dr. Todd. You know, known as Dr. Todd. Yeah, just practicing. Are you still out? We're in Tidewater. [00:00:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:55] Speaker B: You've been doing Lexington, right? Yeah. Getting doctor and dental surgery, you know. Oh, Maryland. Yeah. [00:01:02] Speaker A: You know, more than just about most people I've talked to. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I do a little bit. You know, you're an active member of the ada, so you're the guy who recommends the toothbrushes. And I am that. Yeah. Got some little, little fellow in the institute of Laser Dentistry. That's. [00:01:19] Speaker A: That's all outdated. [00:01:20] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, none of that is more. Yeah. What are you going to do? Yeah, he did an interview about magic. Yes. Somewhere. So I saw that. That was fun. I did. Yeah. Wow. A little bit, you know, you got to know a little bit about your, your host too, right? Nice. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:37] Speaker B: Look at that. I feel special. I'll interview you next time. So. [00:01:40] Speaker A: Okay, sounds great. This is the, this is the deep question. Who is Chris Wheel? [00:01:46] Speaker B: All right, so I'm Chris Wheel. I've been doing magic for. I've been doing magic since about 2007. So I started a little bit later. I started senior year high school really doing magic. Before that, my grandma went to New Orleans with some friends or New Orleans with some friends when she was, you know, when I was younger, I was like 4. And she went to a magic shop down there and picked up a couple little tricks. I picked up the Klutz Book of Magic, which Klutz products. They're still around, but they're not. I don't know if they're still as much, but the magic one I don't think is out there. But she bought that, brought it back and, you know, had all the grandkids there and like, hey, we're going to do a trick. And she had like the thumb tip thing and she did like the one with the. There's the, the dollar bill with the, the two paper clips and you pull them and they link in the air. And I was like, wow, that's great, Grandma. And she's like, well, here, this book is for you, and you can learn all the magic in it. I'm like, awesome. Thanks, grandma. I'm four. I can't read. So that was my kind of my introduction into magic was that book. And I still have that book. And I got another one along the way too. But that was kind of the first introduction as a kid. So again, like, I was always interested in it. When I was in, you know, third grade, we did like a talent show for our school. We did like a little magic act. So we had like, we had like the rope that turns into a silk. We had the light bulb that lights up in your mouth. My parents worked with us and made like, like the. The, like the mirror box, you know, where you can show it empty and then take stuff out. The head twister. We made one of those. Oh. Like, all out of like cardboard and wood and like, like those big gallon ice cream jugs, you know, and cut a hole and put your face in it. So we had like a pretty tight. It was a tight five, you know, for being in third grade. My sister was like. We were kind of like magician assistant, you know, type of thing. So that was my first official show that I did, I did at a library in our town. After the talent show, we did it one more time in the library. And so I've always been interested in it, but I never really knew resources and how to learn it. And like, you go to this, you go to the library and you pick out a book and it's like half of it I can't understand for, you know, one reason or another. And so when I was a senior in high school, I was messing around in our chorus class, you know, and we were just talking and my buddy's like, hey, you want to see a magic trick? I'm like, sure. So he takes out a deck of cards and does. He does like the. The. The two card money trick. You know, like the David Blaine two card money trick. And I was like, dude, I thought you were just like joking. That was pretty sick. That's a hard trick. Yeah. I'm like, you got more. And he's like, yeah. And he did like the two card transpo, you know, and he did like a little, like, ambitious card. I was like, dude, that's crazy. Like, I want to learn how to do that. You actually do magic? He's like, yeah, I do. I'm like, can you teach me? And he was like, yeah. I was like, that was way easier than I thought. I thought you had to like, you know, like, really keep those secret. He's like, I don't know. You're cool. So. So he. He pointed me to Born to Perform Card Magic by Oz Perlman, and he gave me the dvd. He gave me an old deck of. You might have been like, tally hose or, like, maybe black tigers. I think he had, like, a deck of that back in the day. [00:05:14] Speaker A: Oh, those are collector's items now. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And so. And that's kind of where I got my start. So him and I would kind of hang out, and he would show me some stuff. You know, he. He was quite a bit farther ahead than I was, so he had, like, you know, the. The. The invisible thread that would float stuff. He had, like, those little coins that have, like, the red and the green and then they change colors, and it's like the old brass coins. I don't even know the name, but he had a couple things like that, and he's like, yeah, and he would do, like, little cuts and card magic. And that's kind of where I started. So, you know, going through high school, just learning how to, you know, do a. Do a double card turnover and following the OS Perlman, you know, born to perform card magic. And then I started kind of getting more into, like, illusionists. He kind of pointed me toward illusionist, and I think he even pointed me toward, like, penguin. You know, penguin and that. That stuff. So that was my introduction. [00:06:12] Speaker A: The whole. What's part of the holy trinity now is Illusionist, Penguin, and vanishing, Inc. [00:06:17] Speaker B: In 2007. And, like, beginning right in 2007, that's when I think Theory 11 kicked off. [00:06:23] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:23] Speaker B: I think they did. And they had, like, the Lee Asher. They had, like, his joker in the. The bag, that trick Garcia was putting out a bunch of stuff, you know, like, chaos card, the window. That was all around that time I got into it. So I kind of. I feel like I got into it right at the beginning of the. Kind of the online transition. And so that was. That's really the introduction into how I kind of got into magic. And I've kind of just been hooked on it ever since. And that. So that's really the. The. The essence of how I started magic. So, again, it was. I've always kind of like, I do music. You know, I play. I used to be in a band. I would play, like, in my. My mom's a music teacher. My dad had, like. They all went to, like, you know, they were all, you know, you know, in the 70s, all musicians. So, you know, I had a Very heavy upbringing in like, the, the music and the arts and like, stuff like that. So I, and I think the fact that I have three sisters has a lot to do with it too, because we all had a fight for, like, attention. So this was like a great way to get it. You know what I mean? Like, magic trick, center of attention, boom, you know, do you love me, mom? Do you love me, dad? Stuff like that. [00:07:37] Speaker A: But, but yeah, that's, and, and talking some of the other people, it seems like the thing that brings us all together is some kind of childhood trauma, like, turns you into a magician. [00:07:46] Speaker B: Yeah. You had to take the DATs and you know. [00:07:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So speaking of, of dentistry. So you were thinking about possibly becoming a dentist at some point. I find that fascinating. [00:07:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:07:56] Speaker A: How did that, how did that come about? [00:07:59] Speaker B: I just, I, I, I had a pretty decent dental experience growing up. My dentists were cool. I thought it was an interesting job, you know, and, and just kind of, I think it's kind of that kind of inner, like kind of motivation to try to help people in one way or another, try to improve lives. And like the dental thing, I don't know, it just seemed cool. I don't know why. Like, I, like the, it just seemed to be a good thing to do. I, it was just out of all the jobs he could have done, a dentist, I don't know. [00:08:28] Speaker A: Yes. Every dentist I know tries to find something else to do. [00:08:31] Speaker B: I, it's weird. Yeah, so I, so, yeah, so I went to University of Buffalo for their dental program. So I did the pre dental school, by the way. The pre dental. Yeah, it was. And I had, so I have all my prerequisites. And then kind of halfway through college, like second kind of beginning mid of second year, I was, I was like, talk. I had a dental procedure done. I had a root canal done. And I was talking to my dentist and he was like, yeah, I went to college for English. And then I was like, hold on, you don't have to be a dental major thing, like you don't do. I didn't know anything about how any of that works. College, you just go and you say, this is what I want to be. How do I get there? So they say, oh, pre dental route. But they don't say you can like major in something else. So I'm like, oh, I'll major in something that might be interesting. Maybe psychology. Right. And so I started doing that as well. So I got all those credits. So I have, you know, bachelor's in science ready to Go. I did like some shadowing and then, I don't know, I just think I had just, I just felt like I wasn't going to be able to do all the other stuff. I, you know, I like had one kind of not so great grade on one of my courses and it was just like kind of an internal thing. And so then I started doing some work and then I ended up in a different. I ended up being a school psychologist. So again, still working with people, still helping people. Oh yeah, a little bit different setting, you know, less, you know, less mixing of molding, you know, gels and glues and you know. [00:10:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's interesting though because you're nationally certified school psychologist. [00:10:11] Speaker B: Sure. [00:10:11] Speaker A: Right. Okay. How does that change your, how does that change your perspective on magic a little bit? [00:10:18] Speaker B: Really where it comes into play is with magic is, it's, it's two sided. So like the, the magic helps the job of school psychologists and school psychologists also helps the magic part of it. So you know, I was doing magic, so I was like, oh, psychology, right. So you kind of get ideas for like different routines and maybe get some scripting ideas from like psychology. At first, you know, you start to like think about how could I be a psychologist and a magician? And you start coming up with like mentalismy ideas and stuff. Working as a school psychologist though, I learn a lot about different areas of like cognition, how kids learn, how kids interact and how their social skills are kind of how they develop. So that's helped mold my show because I do a lot of family shows because of the area I'm in, there's just, it's a lot of family stuff and a lot of like town events and stuff. So I've kind of gotten into that. And so a lot of the psychology working in like an elementary school, middle school, high school, you kind of learn the best way to interact and how to kind of design a show that is appealing to that audience. And you don't need, you don't need a school psychology degree to do this. There's a lot of really good resources out there where I've taken what I've learned, used it, and then read different books and resources that have kind of confirmed that or at least kind of shared a similar kind of outcome that I found on my own. So you know, it's, it's in my, it's not necessarily proven to work, but there's a lot of it based in, you know, just developmental psychology and just how kids learn how they, they interact with others. So but and then on the other way, magic helps with the job because I'm doing a lot of work with kids who are usually working with students who have like disabilities or who are struggling either behaviorally, socially or like with adaptive skills. You know, like just doing day to day things. And the magic is a good way to kind of almost. It's like that token offering where it's like, hey, this is what I can do. You know, I'll give you like, I'll do like my favorite Paul Harris trick and then you give me your best effort on this, you know, block design subtest. You know what I mean? Like, so it's kind of like a good rapport builder. And it's, it's worked out really well to be able to take performance stuff and magic stuff and using it in school psychology for some really difficult kids as well, because it's something that's, it's. I think it's kind of a, it's a universal thing that people can understand kind of regardless of kind of where they are and what they do. [00:13:06] Speaker A: So yeah, I love that because that is, that's really what I'm about, is people that have, have a day job. There's something for you in this hobby, whatever your level. So when did you go pro? [00:13:19] Speaker B: It started a little bit later. So initially a lot of the stuff I did at the beginning of Magic was more creation. So I've created a bunch of products that I put out when I was kind of when I was younger, when I was going through college and when I graduated. So, you know, I put out some stuff with Paper Crane, put out stuff with mer. Like Paper Crane used to be like kind of its own thing. And then they kind of got bought by Penguin. So a lot of that stuff transitioned into Penguin. But then I started doing some stuff for Penguin, some free stuff I have on there. And then I've done stuff with Murphy's, I've had stuff with Vanishing Inc. And so I've put out a bunch of products and I started doing that and kind of on the side I was like doing the. I really like, like doing like restaurant work. I like doing the walk around stuff. And so kind of a lot of the creations I came out with during those times were more for those situations, those environments. So things that were easy to reset or like natural in an environment I was performing at. And then once I moved out of college, kind of moved back home and started doing, you know, started kind of working or going back to grad school, I started performing more because it was I was getting asked to because people would kind of hear, oh, he does magic now can you do my kids party? You know what I mean? Or oh, do you want to do magic at the library? And I'm like, oh yeah, sure. And so then once I kind of moved back and I had to start doing those family shows, I had to evolve the show from my original audience which was, you know, two 2am freshmen coming off the junk bus, you know, magic to like younger kid. Well, it's kind of very similar, you know, in a way, but yeah, it's kind of similar but you know, just trying to change it. And like I know we. You kind of talked about this a little bit with you were telling a little bit about your show and your show is lost kind of self working stuff. You're doing stuff for older people who might not remember cards. Same thing, you know, I mean, so I've had, I had to take a lot of, I was doing a lot of card stuff and I was like, I can't really do card stuff because kid's not going to be able to do this. Or I can't really do a reading thing. Kid can't read this or how do I make this directions easy to follow, you know what I mean? So it's had to evolve a lot from where I was and I still, you know, I still love doing like the walk around, the corporate stuff, the close up and I. But if I do a lot of the family show stage or bigger stuff and that's where I'm, I'm most comfortable right now because I've had to do so much of it. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:02] Speaker B: And so I was gonna change a lot though. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Yeah. What's your, I was going to ask what your optimum size audience. So you're, you're kind of more of a, you like to do more family style. [00:16:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So I kind of consider it a family show, but it's not necessarily like the size, that's not like a family size show. It's more like the demographic. So you know, considering a family, you're going to have kids who are younger, you're going to have teenagers, you may have twenties, you might have, you know, older people. And so when I developed my show or when I develop magic for my show, first rule for me is I have to like it. Right. So like when I started doing kids magic, you know, you see a lot of these magicians doing kids magic and they're doing like, like big flowers and hippity hop rabbits and they're doing like just stuff I Don't, I don't find appealing because again, I started doing close up card walk around, like that kind of stuff, you know, sleight of hand and doing like real visual stuff. And I kind of didn't want to do like the weird props. I didn't want to do like the really. I don't know, some of it's kind of corny. Some people can make it, make it really good, but it wasn't for me. So like, for example, if I, you know, the tricks I have to do, I have to like. Right. I think that's, that's the, that's a big important thing for everyone. It's like, because, because I've done tricks. Like I've done some like real popular magic. People like, oh, this is a killer. This is a killer. Put it in your show. Like, like, like the, the five card box, like Bill Abbott stuff. Five card box killer routine. You have a box, you have five cards, you put some away, you put one away, you sell five cards, you turn the box and it says like something different. Then it changes. Like the words on the box change the cards. You end up with like 15 cards and then the cards vanish. Fantastic trick. And I would do it in my show when I started off because again, it's like, you got to do this trick. Dude, this is awesome. Like, it's such a good killer. Like everyone loves it and I do it, but it just doesn't feel quite right. And that could just be because of me as a performer or because like the, the thing about Bill Abbott tricks too, like Bill Abbott Bill Abbott products. A lot of times he sells you like a, like a full fledged thing. Like everything's perfect, you know, everything's scripted and ready to go. Which makes it good for someone who's like, oh, I need to get something for this event or something or something to put in. And he's fantastic products. But for me, I always feel like a little disingenuous when I'm doing something like that. So that's kind of the first rules. Like I have to like doing it something I have to like. So I'm not doing a lot of like, you know, I'm not doing like hippie dapper rabbits. I don't have like fake flowers. I don't like have animals. I don't want to, I don't want to feed animals. I don't want to pay for animals. Like, I don't, you know, I was a long time. Yeah. And I like animals. I think they're cool. I'm like oh, that's sweet. I wish I could have a rabbit, but I also don't want to take care of one. I have two kids and they're like, you know, if I could produce one of them, that might be cool. [00:19:07] Speaker A: Want to plug Bill Abbott real quick? Go to Bill Abbott's website. Also his live act on his Penguin magic Live Bill Abbott is everything on there's gold. So this is a plug for Bill Abbott. [00:19:19] Speaker B: I, I like his kind of when he talks about, on that Penguin live lecture, he talks a little bit about. It's not like explicitly stated. Like, this is my theory on stuff, but I feel like when he's doing stuff, he, he has like a very specific kind of like guidelines that he follows. You know, like he's using a lot of like really just like straight up, like working like no fail like, or very minimal failure. Like he's not using a lot of like electronics. He's not using a lot of things that like everything's very fail safe in a way. You know, things can always go wrong. But his stuff is very solid and you're gonna. [00:19:56] Speaker A: If nothing else, I'd say get that for this thing called a center tear. It's worth learning. The center tear. Do you do a lot of mentalism? [00:20:03] Speaker B: I do little bits of it. For me, I feel like because my character that I have, it's a little hard for me to get serious mentalism. So I, I'm still working on like how to keep it like, because it's kind of like, it's almost like a deflection. Like when I get uncomfortable, like when I'm sitting here, I'm like, think of something, you know, and then I'll like have like a fart sound effect or something, you know, I mean, like, I can't, I can't stay so serious about it. And I feel like mentalism in my head. I feel like it's. It's more serious to be taken seriously because I don't want, I don't want to do something, make it like, oh, it's like a tricky joke, you know, But I am starting to do more of that. And I'm still trying to, you know, and that, and that comes down to like a lot of scripting and a lot of pre planning to know what direction I want to go until it feels right. But I do a little bit of mentalism. Like you said, like Bill Abbott center tear. I was on a center tear kick for a hot minute. Bill has a fantastic center tear and there's a, there's a couple Other really good center chairs out there. But Bills is a great place to start. And he has a lot of really good, you know, a lot of good positives about his. And so, like, you said, like, that penguin magic is really nice. He has a lot of really good stuff in there. Like his. He has his invisible deck he talks about in there, which is, like, clutch. Like his. His method for his invisible deck stuff. Yeah. [00:21:35] Speaker A: So what. What's your go to strolling trick? So. [00:21:38] Speaker B: So what I'll do is. And this is, again, I. Everything's built on the shoulders of other people. You know, I don't have a lot of really necessarily individualized thoughts on anything. I think it's a. Just a kind of a mix and an amalgamate amount. Amalgamation or amalgamation. Amalgamation. [00:21:57] Speaker A: I only know that because it's a type of filling. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Or a conglomerate or a cornucopia or, you know, any of those. Right. [00:22:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:06] Speaker B: Of ideas. But one of them that I. I really like is something. I might be misattributing exactly the quote, but it's something that Harrison Greenbaum said who's. It was a great performer. He's hilarious. He's funny, and his magic is. It's cool to watch him, because after he said this, I'm like, yeah, I see what you're talking about. But what he'll like to do is he likes to. And again, I might be misquoting this. So this is how I interpreted it is like, when you're coming up with magic, you want to have the idea of what you want for magic and then figure out how to do it. You know what I mean? Like, you want to have the story, you want to have the idea and the plot and what you want the audience to understand and experience, and then you figure out ways to do it. And so I feel like if you take that approach, instead of, like, going online and saying, oh, look, there's a new card gimmick, like, that'd be so cool. And you put it in your show, it feels more of a. Of a completed routine, and it feels more complete when you are. You have an idea and you say, oh, how would I do this? You know what would be a good way to do this is with that gimmick. You know what I mean? So it's more than just the gimmick. It's more than just something that someone gives to you. It's. It's an idea that you've kind of had that's. That's your own that will fit your personality better. And then you Find ways to do it. So right now, one of the. One of the tricks I really like doing is a combination. There's. There's actually two. It's a combination of Black Door, which is a. An envelope. It's a. It's a gimmick envelope that you can. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, now. Yeah. [00:23:41] Speaker B: Force an outcome. Right. So it's a combination of that and a combination of. So it's a combination of Black door, which is a switch envelope, and then a combination of a trick called Rings by Ben Williams, which is super cool. And what that is, it's. He presents it as a playing card, and you tear the playing card into and you make a ring, and then you make a little ring, and then you have. You have them sign it and you put it in their hand, and then when they open it, they're linked. So. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:18] Speaker B: So the way I do this, which I really like, is I have the two envelopes, and one of them is $100 bill, and the other one is something that's. It's actually worth more. It's. It's. It's a coupon for one free magic trick by Chris Wheel. And I show it, you know, So I have $100, one worth priceless, priceless coupon for a free magic trick. Which one do you want to win? I want you to. I want you to have the best outcome here, right? And they'll say, you know, depending on who, a hundred dollars. It's like, you don't want the hundred dollars. And they're like, yeah, I do. I'm like, okay, well, I kind of wanted more. You know what I mean? It's a magician. Like, have you ever seen a magician with 100 bucks before? I can't. Yeah. I gotta eat after this. But I'll say, you know what? This is what we'll do, though. We'll. We'll play a game. We'll. I'll give you a chance to win the hundred, but you're gonna actually win the better prize. I guarantee it. Guarantee you're gonna win the coupon no matter how hard you try. So then I do, like, a little thing, you know, it's like I'm gonna mix them up, you know, I'm not gonna. You know, I'm not. I'm not trying to be, you know, and I just have the two cards. I'm like, I'm not trying to really confuse you, you know, and I do a couple, like, little turn things that are a little weird. Like, I. I'm not going to do any sleight. Of hand. I'm just turning them, you know what I mean? I'm going to be honest with you. Like a politician. Okay, well, like, like a local politician, you know, like a town clerk or something. Like, nothing, nothing, nothing. Too bad. I say, which one do you want? Do you want the one in my right or the one in your left? You know, and they'll be like, oh, yeah, you know, are you sure? And they, they say, you pick this one. You want this? You fool. You just fell. One of you just fell for one of the classic blunders, the most well known being never going to land where in Asia. Then you do that whole thing or whatever and then you, like, switch them. You know, you want this one. And everyone's like, he switched up, you know, and say, oh, whatever. You. Which one do you want? You're going to get, you know, and you get the coupon. So they get the coupon and then after that I'll say, and that's for a free trick. And luckily for you, it doesn't expire for another 5, 4, 3 to, you know, and you get it back. And then I go into rings. And so for me, it just, it's just a fun routine, you know, because it has like that kind of that weird game and then they end up with kind of the winning or the losing prize. It depends how old you are too. Like, I've noticed older people want the coupon either, either, either because they feel bad for me for losing 100 bucks and they want to be nice or because they, like, they have 100 bucks, they don't care, you know, I mean, like, oh, I kind of want the free coupon. That. Yeah, that's cool. You know, I mean, like. And so then I do that and it kind of connects things together. It has a reason for that. It's like a business card that says free coupon. It has like my logo on idea. So it's an, it's an actual business card. And then you, you create the rings trick with that. So then they have their name on it. You give it to them. They remember it's. You could barely read it because it's all torn up. But they know because you tear it. You can, you design it. So when you tear it, you tear it like under the wheel, you know, I mean, and you. So that's a really fun one. I've been getting a lot of good mileage out of. I really like the Digital Force bag. Are you familiar with Digital Force Bag? It's a, it's a. It's a phone app. And the idea behind it is you have. You have your phone and you have, like, a bunch of notes, right? And one of them is, you know, I have a list of, like, gift ideas. I have one that's movies. I have magic ideas, you know, ideas that I have when I have magic. And I had one that involves celebrities, and I do, like, the celebrity thing. So you pick a number, you know, you say 15, you go, 15. Oh, it's Dwayne Johnson. Right? Right. Dwayne Johnson. Okay. And you're not gonna believe it, but behind my phone, right, I have a little envelope, right? And inside is a picture of Dwayne Johnson as a baby, Right? [00:28:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Hold on. Sorry, sorry. Wrong one. That was. You know what that looks like a baby. Wrong baby. There you go. That's. Wayne Johnson is a baby. Sorry, it's. It's stuck. And I have it on the table. So I have a bunch of other ones in here that fall out. And they fall out, you know, And I have a bunch of ones, and I say, here's the thing before you go and you call the police to tell them I have pictures of little kids hiding under my phone here. It really has nothing to do with the little kids. Has nothing to do with the little kids. It's a magic trick. It actually has more to do with what they're wearing. I realize it doesn't sound much better. Pause, pause. Anyway, I want to meet your madre. No, but honestly, it has more to do with what they're wearing. So example here is a little baby who's kind of naked, right? And here's a. Not a lot of clothes on, right? And here's a picture with Dwayne Johnson with not a lot of clothes on. Look at that. Right? [00:29:16] Speaker A: That's good. [00:29:17] Speaker B: Dwayne Johnson. Johnson and Johnson. Cool, right? Here's one of Lil baby in a suit. And we know Dwayne Johnson wear suits. You know what I mean? So we got Dwayne Johnson's suit. And yeah, I don't have enough money even to pay my best buddy dj. Sorry, that's what we call him, DJ friends, you know, to put on a pink dress, you know, but luckily, 21st Century Fox did when they put him in the tooth fairy. Look at that. And that's Dwayne Johnson, number 16, you know, so that's like a wicked quick. Just the goofy. [00:29:47] Speaker A: That's good. [00:29:47] Speaker B: Like, and it has, like, a really different feel than some of the other, like, oh, it's a baby, you know, it has like the. The clothing thing. So it has like. I feel like it gets that little extra. No, I think dress kicker, which is fun because people who I do the trick for, who know that movie, they have like a moment to be like, yo, yo, I know this movie. I know what's happened, I know what's coming, you know, and they see it and they. They kind of get a little, like. They get a little. Little. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a, you know, star moment. [00:30:14] Speaker B: Where they, like, can, like shine a little bit, which is fun. So I like doing those two. I kind of like having little things like that, like, and then from that I'll go. I go into like a. A watch thing. So I usually like to kind of put them into groups of two tricks, you know, like black door rings, digital force bag, a watch, prediction number, like calculator, toxic type of. Type of thing. I do one with the nesting wallets. So I do nesting wallets where you have a coin you put in your pocket, you know, it vanishes. Then you go and take the wallet out of your pocket. And so I take the coin, I put it, and they tap it. Oh, it's gone. You know where it goes? You don't know where it goes ever. Have you ever been to Europe before? Do you have a passport? We're going. I'm just kidding. No, but I go into my pocket, I take out my wallet and I say, this is actually an anti pickpocket wallet. I got it from qvc. I was going to take a trip to Blackpool. Bunch of thieves if you ever never heard of Blackpool. And so I bought this because a lot of problems. Pickpockets over there. A lot of problems with pickpockets over there. And so this is a wallet. And when you open it, inside one wallet is another wallet, and inside that wallet is another wallet. And inside that one is a little. No, it's not another wallet. It's a little red piece of fabric. And you take out a little piece of fabric and you open it in the coins in there. Right. Very traditional nesting, Walt. I put it all back, put it away, say, oh, great. And I do another trick. I can do like a couple others. And then I end with an ambitious card. And the ambitious card. The card goes in, I say, take the marker and tap on it. Boom, boom, boom. And I say, look, it's gone. You know where it goes? Ever been to Europe? No. Do you have your passport? We're going, no, I'm just kidding. Here, let me show you. I have one of these. Have you seen One of these before. It's a. It's called an anti pickpocket wallet. You know what, you look like you've heard this before, you see one of these. But I got it because I was going to Blackpool full of thieves. And inside it is a little wallet. So if they pickpocket, you know, I do the same exact thing. And inside it's red. Be a playing card. That's right. And you take out just the playing card, fold it up, you know what I mean? So it's like a repeat, it's a callback. So I kind of like that when I can combine two tricks into one. That's just something I've been doing lately just to have like a little quick 5 sec, like 5 second thing that flows to two tricks. Boom, boom. Maybe a third in between. But I kind of like to try to tie them together if I can, because it gives more justification. And the, the way that I come up with these is I just perform. I just perform and I find things that kind of fit and I. Again, I'm trying to do tricks that I like with kind of some kind of some modicum of original thought to it, you know, like combining the rings and the business card and that, like, I feel like that's original enough. It's two tricks, but it's. It kind of gives that feel, you know, like, oh, I want to give out a business card. What's a cool way to do that? You know, I kind of always like the blank night thing, you know, where it's like, oh, here's the envelope with $100 bill and with my, you know, like John Archer with a, with a fake dollar bill or, you know, a memento or whatever. So again, all these ideas you take from other people and you try to fit it to be your personality. [00:33:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Are you in Connecticut? Is that where you are? [00:33:27] Speaker B: No, I'm in New York. [00:33:29] Speaker A: New York, okay. Like New York City or New York State. [00:33:31] Speaker B: New York, like central. [00:33:33] Speaker A: New York central. Okay. [00:33:34] Speaker B: Not upstate central. [00:33:36] Speaker A: My relatives are in Syracuse. [00:33:38] Speaker B: You have a great group of guys over here too. It's small, but it's really good. We got some really good guys in this area. Yeah, I know some cities have like magic shows at things and people, you know, I mean, like, they have like more production stuff. You know, some places like host like a show every night. Like, we don't have that. You know, our magic scene is like, like five guys. Like, not the burgers. Oh, I was gonna say, like, oh, five. Five fellows, we've got five Fellows who do magic. Five lovely fellows at Blackpool. Yep. Not those guys. Now I've never been to Blackpool. I just, I don't. I just say that that's a magician joke that no one gets when I do that for layman people. Like what Blackpool? Like what's. I love. [00:34:21] Speaker A: That was a hell of an Easter egg. [00:34:23] Speaker B: So. Yeah, right. Lay people, you know, but if you're doing magic for like a magician, you don't know he's a magician and they're like, you know, they're like, oh, you know, they'll get it. But, but yeah, it's so, so a lot of the stuff we do around here, it's like smaller stuff. You know, I do a lot of like family stuff. I do a lot of like, stuff with like towns, you know, like towns are doing festivals or fairs or like, you know, yearly events. I do a lot of campgrounds too in the summer. Like the summers get super busy with like different schools and camp because again like I'm in the school system. So like I get googled. They'll say, oh, magician. They see me, they're like, oh, he works in a school. Like he's already got his fingerprints done. He can't be that big of a felon. So, so that's. I think that helps a little bit. You know, we have that, we have a couple, you know, we do try to put on a few like public things with some other guys, you know, once in a while. But it's pretty chill out here. We've got, you know, some, some, some good stuff out here though, magician wise for the area that we have. We have a few real tight guys that'll meet up every like month or two. But yeah, it's not like people are doing like theaters. Like I'm not going out and like people aren't like calling me for like theaters and people aren't calling for like stuff, stuff like that. I get a lot of calls for like, like the, you know, like more like public, like more like community type of things. I feel like that's a lot of what I get called for, which is great. I love again I, I feel comfortable doing that because I've been doing it for years, so. But no, it's, it's, it's all right. You know, it's, it's not bad if you know where to look and who to talk to. So. But it's not, it's nothing quite like Buffalo, like the Buffalo magic scene. Do you know anything about that? [00:36:13] Speaker A: No. Is it, is it like Chicago where it's just absolutely, like insane. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Surprisingly, it's. I think it's starting to dwindle a little bit. I might be wrong. [00:36:24] Speaker A: Oh, that makes me sad. [00:36:25] Speaker B: But I know they used to have like. You heard of 4F? Have you ever heard of 4F? [00:36:36] Speaker A: Like the tractors. [00:36:38] Speaker B: That's 4H, my guys. [00:36:39] Speaker A: 4H Club. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Oh, 4H Club. No, that's. So 4F is a. It's like a convention. It's. I don't. I always mess it up. But it stands for the Fector's Finger Flicking Frolic. I not. I had nothing to do with naming it. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Wow. [00:36:59] Speaker B: But it's named after a guy named Eddie Factor who used to be a magician in Buffalo at what was the Forks Hotel at the time. And it was almost like, from what I've heard comparisons to almost like the Magic Castle but in, like, Buffalo. And so they would have, like, he would do magic. Everyone would come from all over see him. Other magicians would come in and do magic. Like, if you're a magician, you would do magic at the Force Hotel. And then they ended up putting together the factors convention, the 4F convention. And it's an invite only. It's in. It's in Buffalo. It used to be in Batavia, New York, which is a little bit to the east, like half an hour, but now it's in Buffalo and it's invite only. They've had, you know, members there, like, they've had like the MVP awards. They've had like Paul Daniels, Steve Beam, Jim Kranz, Leonard Green, although Columbini, Juan Tamara is David Williamson, Gary Kurtz, you know, like all these guys. [00:37:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's crazy. [00:37:57] Speaker B: Danny Do Ortiz, Steve Bean. Like, I think I said Steve Bean twice because he's awesome. But you know, they, they just, they have the. Like the thing we would always say is like, if something happened that at the, you know, the. Where it used to be like, you know, like a. If like the building collapsed, like magic would be set back like 20 years. You know what I mean? Like, it's like everyone's. Everyone is there. You know, you've got like just. Just look at like the webpage and they do like a really nice write up. Like, it's like almost a review of the year. Wow. And they have so, like, let's see, I'll just click one random one here. So Batavia, blah, blah, blah. They talk about who is there. So like, they open. They have an opening gala. So me or Yedid was there. And then they have like, Bernardo said Sedleck there, you know, just all these, all these top guys there. Hort Wu, Henry Evans, David Regal. Wow. All these dudes in one place. And this is, you know, in Buffalo. You know, right now they have also a Buffalo meetup that happens in October. Like they have like Garrett Thomas lives out there. You know, they have. Who else lives out there? Roger Nico, who he just passed away. So Rip, he was like with Phoenix, Phoenix playing cards and those guys. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:39:25] Speaker B: So he was a big, he was there for, for a while. He moved to England though. But like he was there. You've got like just linking. You have like Vic Tribuco, he's out there. Like a lot of really good, really good group out there that meet up. And so Buffalo is like really tight with like they have some crazy stuff. Like 4F is crazy. Like you've got everyone, anyone who's like anyone has been there. You know what I mean? Like Howard Hamburg is there all the time. You know Jeff Williams, who's really great. These are just, these are name dropping. But it's like this is like. It's weird. It's a weird place. I wouldn't have thought it been so magical. It is a strange, it's a strange place. [00:40:20] Speaker A: It's surprisingly populated for being in technically kind of in the middle of nowhere and kind of. [00:40:25] Speaker B: It's, you know, it affects snow. [00:40:28] Speaker A: You can. One afternoon you can have five feet of snow. And I don't understand why people live there. I just, I, I don't know how central New Yorkers do it. God bless you. You probably snow on the ground right now. [00:40:40] Speaker B: We, we got hammered this year. We've got like four feet out there still and it hasn't snowed in like I don't know, two weeks. But it's like it's been 40 degrees. We still have four feet. It's just, it's all ice. It's all crazy. It's awful. This winter was like the one I'm like done with. I started like, I just started golfing last summer. So now I'm like, when is it going to be? You just, you just have to paint. [00:41:06] Speaker A: Your balls black and just go for it. [00:41:08] Speaker B: And just go for it. Yeah. After like, you know. Yeah. Get snowshoes. [00:41:11] Speaker A: And I, I was thinking about how, how technology is getting so advanced that people are going things that used to be really in. Like you would be doing something without electronics and people are just going to go, it's on its. Is his phone or something. Do you think that's going to be a problem? [00:41:29] Speaker B: Yeah. You, you already get that. Yeah. I mean, you already get kids guessing that, people thinking that, you know, even if you don't. Even if you're not using technology, you can almost get that. I don't know. I. I think, you know, magicians are. It's not something that they're discrediting or just, you know, they're. They're not thinking about. I think it's something that's always constantly thought about. And I know a lot of electronics that have come out recently, they. They've been doing a pretty good job making them seem very unelectronic. You very, like. And I think it comes, like. It's kind of like, you know, I think it has a lot to do with how you perform it, how you use it, and kind of your attitude, working with those things, too. Like, I, like, use technology in my show because I think it's cool. And it kind of like, you know, depending on the product, it's. It's relatively. It works relatively well. Like, there's some products where, if it's ever messed up, it's like, all my fault. You know what I mean? Because, you know, there are. There's still technology. You have to, like, you know, set stuff up the right way or, you know, but there's. There's also. Sorry. There's also a lot of technology that's really, like, just, like, not. You can't count on it. You, like, work with kids and stuff. [00:42:46] Speaker A: I do. I work with kids, adults, kids, everybody. And it's something about being able to pull a trick. And I do the. The. I think Slydini did the. The stuff over the head. [00:43:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:00] Speaker A: So next to. When you're next to a dental chair, you don't have to go over the head. You just drop it. [00:43:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:07] Speaker A: And you're right next to him. So you. You say. I. It's. It's here, it's gone, it's. It's back. And I just. I just dropped. Drop it out of my hand. [00:43:14] Speaker B: My assistant picks it all up and it's all. [00:43:16] Speaker A: Yeah, they're. The. The patient always moves their head and then does something like they're always nobody's. Or I move in, like, and I just drop it. And it. It's just. It's literally the perfect trick. And I do it with a. Like a paper towel. It's. It's like. [00:43:30] Speaker B: It's great. You know that trick. It's the tweezer trick with the coins. [00:43:34] Speaker A: No, tell me more. [00:43:37] Speaker B: I have tweezers. [00:43:38] Speaker A: A lot of them. [00:43:42] Speaker B: It is. It's called Chinese tweezers by Mario Lopez. [00:43:48] Speaker A: Oh, Mario Lopez. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Yep, yep. So the tweezer trick is you show these tweezers. The way he does it is he shows tweezers and he has a little Chinese coin and he sticks the tweezers through the hole and when he pulls it out, he pulls a coin out. Like a whole coin at red at the tip. Like I. You can be doing that in mouths now. I also like Gypsy Balloon. [00:44:08] Speaker A: Oh, I've heard of Gypsy Balloon. Never done it, but I've seen it. [00:44:11] Speaker B: That's. That's one of my favorite versions of the gypsy thread too is Gypsy Balloon. Because it's kind of tying in like that visual. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Metaphorically. There's a lot of wiggle room for what you want to talk about. Even just pop culture wise, you know, I mean, get yourself a red balloon on a string. You know, you got yourself some like, good. It's references, you know, there. There's just so much you can do with it. And again like you. You take the string, you tear the string off, put it on. It's like the. It's one of the best versions for stage. [00:44:47] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:44:48] Speaker B: It. It's so good. And then after that I'll follow it up with like, there's a trick. It was Matt. I think Matt Johnson released it with Penguin. I think I had a really simple name. It's called Bill Loon Matt Johnson. It's. Oh, so it's Mark Gent, presented by Matthew Johnson. And what that is is you take a dollar bill, you sign it, you take it and you can. You. You blow up a balloon, right? You tie the balloon, you take the bill, you pop it in the balloon and they hear it and then they pop it and it's inside the balloon. So I mean, so I do that and I think this was a Spidey. Spidey idea. You know, Spidey. He's. [00:45:30] Speaker A: Yeah, he's. He's. [00:45:32] Speaker B: I think he had something where he does it with a confabulation at the end. Oh, wow. You can, you can have the balloon and you like to do Gypsy balloon and then you can shake it and there's something inside. You say your. Pop it, pop it. Boom. And you just low. You just have your. The whole show is there. You know, they read off the whole show what happened. You know, I mean, that's cool. Super good. I used to, I used to do that a little bit more and I still will, depending on the time of year and kind of how I'm feeling time of year because balloons don't like to hold up in the winter very well. But I'll do that. And I usually do it with a poem or some kind of a rhyme thing to it. Again, it's like that thing where it's like you do a trick and you just find the things that flow. Or you have like an idea. Like, I want to do a confabulation. Okay, well, how do I get there? I don't know. You know, I mean. Or like you try to pick out things from your show. Like there's a great trick. It's the lemon. It's the. It's the lemon. And inside of it is an egg inside. Do that one walnut. [00:46:35] Speaker A: Yep. [00:46:35] Speaker B: John. [00:46:36] Speaker A: John Shyrock. Such a good. I do that. That's my one. I do before Scott Alexander's. Nailed it. Because after nailed it, you'd go home. [00:46:47] Speaker B: There's no. I can't. [00:46:48] Speaker A: I can't top. Nailed it. You know, Nailed it. [00:46:52] Speaker B: I did a show. I did Russia roulette. I did a show for Cornell University once. So some. Some, you know, Ivy League smart people, you know, for like the. The staff and I and I kind. [00:47:05] Speaker A: Of closed with that fun like spoon bending we had. Steve asked on our Facebook page. He wanted some advice on bending forks and spoons. And I looked into it and I found there's a metal bending from the world's Greatest Magic that you can get on penguin. [00:47:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:23] Speaker A: And so far that's probably the best spoon bending, maybe 13 steps. [00:47:27] Speaker B: Sure. What do you. [00:47:28] Speaker A: What do you think? [00:47:28] Speaker B: That's an interesting question, though. So I used to do. I do once in a while because I think. I think the spoon bending, metal bending thing is like super cool. And it's also like one of those tricks that it's like you almost. It's could almost be like an impromptu thing depending. I used to do it much more when I was in college. And you might need to cut this part out for legal reasons, but you know, when you go to like the food court, you know, or whatever in college, they have the forks and it's just. There are some weird ones now. There are some weird twists in some of them. But yeah, I got really into metal bending for a while. I got really into different kind of tricks like that. Yeah. So World's Greatest Magic has a really nice kind of mix of metal bending. And what they offer is like not just. It's not like a pro. Like it's not like a one specific kind of metal band. It's like a lot of different kinds. So you're Talking about, like, bending, like, big, like, penny nails or whatever they're called. And you're talking about, like, bending forks. You're talking about spoons. Talking about, like, different kind of applications for it as well. So that's, like, a really cool one to have. And I actually have that. That's one of the DVDs I have. I was just looking through. I was just cleaning out all my magic stuff. You know, this behind me is. Is my magic closet. This is my magic room I had to build. [00:48:52] Speaker A: That's your magic closet. That's where we keep the secrets. [00:48:55] Speaker B: No, actually, I'm. I'm not gonna open it because I, like, I. I just push that. You know how you just push everything to the side? You know, if I showed you, like, over here and here it's. And down here, you know, we frame this. Okay. [00:49:06] Speaker A: Yeah, same. [00:49:08] Speaker B: But I've got, like, a cricut cutting machine over here, I've got the 3D printer covered with cricut cutting stuff. But in here I actually have a. It's a closet, but it's also a work table. So I have a whole table station built in here where I have, like, all the supplies and all the stuff and all the outlets I need for different things. And so I can work in there and make all the gimmicks. So it has the lighting. It's got, like, all the glues and tools and everything. And then on the other side is, like, where I put stuff for, like, performance stuff. So, like, I have boxes of, like, just stuff shoved into a box with no order, you know, like thumb tips and sponge balls with, like, Chinese coins and, like, who knows what else. [00:49:51] Speaker A: It's right. Mine's right in there. [00:49:52] Speaker B: It's right there. And then I have that. So. So I do. I was just cleaning out, and I have a big stack of, like. It's like an old. One of those old CD binders. You know, back when you use CD binders. And it has that in there. So I do have that one. That was a good one. That has a lot of different stuff on it. For me, I did a lot more of the fork bending. And I think a fork bending is nice because, again, like, forks, everyone knows what a fork is. Everyone's used the fork, so they're very familiar with how they work and kind of the durability of it. So even if they can bend one, you know, the. The way that you're bending it is like, you know, with the. With the kind of the subterfuge and like, the. The sleight. Of hand and the different variations and also some of the more impossible methods, like doing the internal twists and like. [00:50:36] Speaker A: I love those. So cool. [00:50:38] Speaker B: That stuff that's just as crazy. Like, it's just. You just don't think of like that ever. Like, people understand, like, how do I twist a spoon? No one think. No one's thinking how you're going to twist a spoon. So like, when you do something that's really cool. So there's that. The. The. The world's greatest magic, a really good one is the psychokinetic silverware. Let me see if that's what it's called. Psycho Connect. Yeah. So that's Jerry and Banachek. That's like. Oh, OG. That's Og. You know, he had his. I think he had a book out about it, Psycho Kinetic silverware book. And then they had the. The dvd. And that was really good because that goes into a lot of cool things, like the twist. Talking about, like, how to. How to shake it so it breaks. Like. So you shake it and then it bends and it falls off like the, the top tine of it. And he talks about a couple other things. So that's a really good resource because he breaks it down very well. The other one is the Liquid Metal by Morgan Strebler. And I think he has a liquid metal 2 also. Yeah. So Illusionist has the sequel to. It's like the sequel. So it's Beyond Liquid Metal 1. So he talks about a little more finesse and some different. I don't know if that's the one that teaches how to like twist the tines too. Oh, wow. But you know, you take it, you go like this. Shake it one time. Bends. Then you pull up your sleeve, you shake it. All of them are like this. You know, that's crazy. So Psycho Kinetic silverware. And then there's one more. I can't even remember what it was. If I do, I'll get back to you on it. But what we'll do is if I figure it out, we'll just put the name of it right up here. [00:52:35] Speaker A: Yep. [00:52:35] Speaker B: And this right there, right now, if you find it right here, when I find it, if we. By the time this comes out. But that's a really nice. It's. It's just a single bend. But I've seen other people do it because it's so good. You just have like the fork like this and sticking out. I don't have any forks out here right now, but it's like just the fork like this. And you just Go like this. And it bends and then you show it and then you do it and it bends more you show it. And it bends more you show it. It's just super, it looks super good and I'll, I'll try to figure out what it's called. But that was another one that I like to do with the metal bending. So those are like the kind of the, the, the, The Liquid Metal 1 and 2, the Psycho Kinetic silverware, like your base. Like if you want to know how to bend spoons and bend metal like that, that's where you start. That will give you more than enough to, to like, just totally screw up a whole, like silverware sack. [00:53:32] Speaker A: Yeah, good. Go to Bed, Bath and Beyond, which I don't even know if exists anymore, and just get all the 20 cent ones. [00:53:38] Speaker B: Yeah, and it's, and it also, you know, for, for people who, you know, maybe don't think about performing or people who aren't like, doing a lot of. Because, because when you get into performing, you start to see like, like justification for things. Um, and you start to like, start thinking less about how and more about why. And so I had a conversation with Paul Draper about metal bending once and the, I won a contest and I got to talk with Paul for like an hour talking about that. And he does a lot of metal bending. He's very. That's big part of what he does. I think even still he was, I think he was just on like, you know, ESPN and did some. But, you know, he, he was kind of talking about like the presentational part, like, all right, we're going to do something with these forks. Hold on, let me, let me just take this off. You know what I mean? Let me take. I just don't want to have these interfere or anything. You know what I mean? Okay. Taking, you know, taking things off, you know, trying to make it seem like if you really could bend metal, what would that kind of look like? Would it be like very like, finesse? Would it. Why are you bending metal? Like, why are you at Tommy's birthday to bending forks? Why aren't you working for the Department of Defense with their Psyops program or something? You know, I mean, like, why aren't you, like, doing something a little more productive than like, messing up grandma's silverware? The Oneida set, Shout out to Central New York. But you know what I mean, like, so, so that's a lot about magic too, is thinking about, like, why. Thinking about like the reasons behind what you're doing as opposed to just what you're doing like, yeah, you're bending metal, but like, why are you betting metal? Or what's so special about why you bend metal versus maybe another magician who bends metal or another mentalist? Like, so, like just thinking about that and it's not something you necessarily need or. But I think it just adds an extra level of thought and purpose to what you're doing as opposed to, you know, I mean, like it always. It kind of lets you express yourself too, you know, ex. You express yourself into that Persona instead of just like copying a trick and doing the same. Like one great version, one great, one great example is the fiber optics, right? Probably familiar with Richard Sanders. Richard Sanders Fiber Optics. It's the professor's nightmare routine, basically. So you have the ropes, you have three ropes, they turn into the same size, then you have the two and you change it into one. Then you pull the ends off, put them up. It's one of the best, like DVDs resources for like that trick, like a rope routine, fiber optics. But it's funny because you'll see a lot of people who do those routines. I do a fiber optic based routine as well. Um, and when you see someone do it, you know, they'll do it and they'll pull it off and they. And it's funny, you could watch the DVD right next to them and they'll have the same, like, laughs, you know, I mean, like the same time when you laugh, the same like, kind of motions, you know, I mean, like, it's very, like it's, it's not a representation of who they are sometimes. Now I'm talking again, I'm talking about like, I'm sure you're talking to magicians who are far above where I am, performance wise. And I know there's performers that are far beyond me. And I'll never, you know, I'll never get to that level probably just due to the, you know, you talked. I know. [00:57:12] Speaker A: Well, they've been doing it since they're four, right? They got, they got a head start, right? [00:57:17] Speaker B: For real. But, but some of these guys, like, perfect example, like Garrett Thomas, if you can ever talk with him either on a podcast or in just in person. Every time I talk to Garrett Thomas, my first thought is like, okay, I guess I'm quitting magic now, because I've never put as much thought into anything than he has on how to just take a ring off. He probably has more thought about how to just take a ring off. That might be an exaggeration, but he like anything he thinks About. He's thinking about it to a degree that I've never thought I think of anything in my life. Do you know what I mean? And I just say, like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? When there's people like him or, you know, people like Eric Mead or people like Jason Ladani, who is practicing, like, six hours a day, you know, I mean, like, real masters of what they're doing, like, really thinking about these things and really, like, trying to understand. So, like, I. I'm just. I'm, Again, I'm just kind of almost regurgitating things that I've seen and talk to other people about. But I think putting even a. A percentage of that into your own magic, you're gonna see a lot of good come out of that. A lot of, you know, a lot. A lot of changes in what you do that will make your show feel more like you. You know, people are like, I want a character. What. What is my character? You know, And I know you've talked to some fantastic character magicians. You know, I mean. Oh, yeah, you talked to the Lucy Darling character. [00:59:09] Speaker A: You know, I mean, like, she's on a different level. I mean, she is just absolutely. [00:59:14] Speaker B: Well, that's. And that's. And, like, the. Those. Those people that I talked about, like Jason Garrett, they are like, Jason. Jason Lany. Do you know Jason Lany? [00:59:29] Speaker A: Name's familiar, but I haven't met. [00:59:31] Speaker B: So he does a lot of stuff on, like, TikTok YouTube right now, where he's like. He does a lot of card mechanic stuff, like poker stuff. So he'll be like. He'll. He'll be reading comments to be like, I want you to take the cards, give them a table shuffle, and then deal yourself four fours and two aces in alternating red, black, red, black color. And he's like, well, it looks like we got someone new to the channel here. You know, someone wants to lose 50 bucks, you know, they'll bet you 50 bucks do it, someone's gonna lose it. He's, like, very, like, you know, condescending, a little cocky, but that. That. That's, you know, again, that's kind of his character, too, but he takes the same. Kind of the same mindset for his magic as he does for other things he does. He's a fantastic musician. He is. You know, he. He toured playing piano. He's. He plays guitar like no one's business. But he applies I. And I. And. And I think he said something like that, like, once you kind of know how to practice, and, you know, how to get good at. Because he, I don't think, I think, you know, he did a lot of piano and a lot of guitar, but once you know how to practice and how to learn and how to pick things up like that, you can apply that to other things that you do. Like you being, you know, a dentist, you're very good at that. And you've had to learn how to do all these things. So when you started doing magic, you're applying the same techniques to practice from one to the other. You know, repetition, you know, consistency, learning correctly the first time. And, and, and so I think those things tie in. But again, I don't, I don't even know where we are with this conversation anymore. [01:01:10] Speaker A: We're just going, we're just spitballing at this point. [01:01:14] Speaker B: But I think trying to think about the why as opposed to the how. Don't think about the method. Think about why you're doing this. Don't think about, oh, I want to do this trick on my show. Think about what do I want to present and what story do I want to tell. And I'm not talking about story like, oh, when I was young, I found my grandfather's last story. I'm just saying, like, what do you want to present? I wanted to do a card throwing thing. I want to throw cards in my show. You know what I mean? So what, what do I want to do? What's the, what's the process for that? And you know, you could put together a whole bunch of different things. Oh, I want to do a. I want to produce Mr. Potato Head. Okay, well, what else can I do with a potato head? Well, maybe I can, you know, have it fix itself, you know, I mean, like, you know, like it's a gypsy. [01:02:05] Speaker A: Thread, confabulation all over, you know, I. [01:02:07] Speaker B: Mean, it's just tying things and saying, I want to get from here to here. What can I do? The way, you know, And I, and I think it's, it's a fun journey. And so for like anyone who's getting into it, I guess that, like the tip I would be is like to figure out what story you want to tell, what kind of, what kind of what you want your audience to think and feel what you want to feel and just try to go from there. Script everything is important, write things down. Because if you script things, you'll find places in your show to fill in the blanks or that will tie things together when you write it out. It's a lot different than going up there and saying, oh, I Have an idea of a. Of a trick, like the. Like. Like you. Like earlier, like taking the apple out of the bag. Adding the apple, the bag is like, that's. That was a process of scripting. Like I. Scripting. I wanted to do this for a show. I want to script it. That came. That just came out of that, you know, I mean, it wasn't. It wasn't anything. I was like, hey, you know, that's a light bulb. It was just, hey, okay, I'll take out another bag. That's kind of cool. Oh, and it works, you know, so it's more about the journey of how to get there and what to present to your audience and stuff. [01:03:13] Speaker A: So speaking of presenting to your audience, where can people find you? Tell us your social media account. [01:03:19] Speaker B: Sure. So you can find me at Chris Wheel or Wheel Magic. Now, here's the thing. You have to spell it W H E E L. Like Wheels on the bus. The reason being my name, Christopher Wheel, the Germanic German spelling. I would perform as Christopher Wheel. And then if anyone introduced me, it would be wild. Or if they put it in a flyer, it would be W E I H L or W H I E L. Like, they knew there were some letters in there. They knew there were letters. There's some sort of letter combination and it would just get mixed up. So. So, you know, about like, I don't know, maybe like 10 years ago, after many a flyer was put out with my wrong name or a lot of mispronunciations from DJs or whatever, I said, I'm just gonna go Chris Whel. So a lot of my performance stuff is under Chris Wheel, W H E L. So that's why I changed it. However, it has a second effect because it's both phonetically the same. Chris Wheel. Chris Wheel. But if you want to find any of my magic products, any of my things that I've put out over the years, if you search Christopher Wiehl, it'll pop up. So when people are searching Chris Wheel, W H E L, they won't find all the fun, you know, the fun products that are out there with, you know, explaining how I do some of these tricks. So it's kind of the Patrick Redford effect. If you don't know who that is, but who carries. [01:04:50] Speaker A: Who carries your effects. So people know where to go. [01:04:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So Vanishing Inc. Carries a bunch of stuff. Penguin carries a bunch of stuff anywhere that kind of sells. Like Murphy's products will hold some stuff. I've got a couple downloads. If you go on Penguin, you Just type in my name. I did a series for a while called the Wheel. Free downloads. Nice wheel. Good magic. You know, magic is Wheel. All that. And I had a couple products on that projects on there that were kind of interesting. Again, this was years ago, so I thought they were like. Some of these ideas I thought were really great, but they. Looking back on them, they're not. But I do have a really good karate coin download. [01:05:35] Speaker A: Oh, okay. I love karate coin. [01:05:37] Speaker B: So this breaks down a couple different presentations of like how to do just like the basic credit coin. But the main thing is it teaches you how to make your own, like a really good way to do it that like. Because I'll just make a bunch of them and I can hand them out at the end because I've always felt like if you had to buy a karate coin and making one is kind of hard. But the. What I show on the video is like the easiest thing. Like it's. It costs a little bit of money, but not much. [01:06:01] Speaker A: No, that's worth it. [01:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's a. I like that project a lot. I don't know. I had some stuff in like, I think Janie magazine. Couple tricks in there that if you're a subscriber, you can look for me in there. I don't remember which ones I'm in. I teach a couple a real. A real neat card control. That's a really fun one. That's called no Camouflage. That's a really, really fun, fun control. I'll show you that later. [01:06:34] Speaker A: Cool. [01:06:34] Speaker B: And then. But that's. Yeah, but on like Tick Tock, I have some Tick Tock stuff. I do some Instagram, my website right here, chriswheel.com and that's kind of just like a good way to get a hold of me if you want something about magic stuff. Because sometimes Facebook and Instagram, I don't always get the. [01:06:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:53] Speaker B: The info for that. But if you email [email protected] or Magic, you have. [01:06:57] Speaker A: You have a lot of faith in my editing skills. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Chris Wheel. And thanks to our listeners. Remember to like subscribe and ring the bell so you never miss an update. Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and leave a review. It's easy to do, it costs nothing and it helps a lot. So remember to send in questions to our Facebook page as well. Thank you so much for your support and remember, Magic is for everyone.