Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the magician's workshop. Today I am beyond excited to sit down with somebody that I've admired for a long time. The incredible John Armstrong. John is known around the world for his jaw dropping, close up card work, his performances at places like Disney World, and his consulting work for television and film. He's also someone who blends technical skill with real personality and storytelling, making him one of the most respected performers in the industry. John, it is such a pleasure to have you here.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. That's very nice to hear. I, I love hearing nice things about.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: Me and I know you're super busy and I appreciate you spending a couple minutes with us to talk.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Oh, no, hey, I'm happy to do it. Any, anytime I can talk about magic, I'm happy to do it.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: And I know you're doing. Is, is it this week you're doing Magic Castle.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Yes, I'm hosting in the palace of Mystery this week. This week is full of very low name, no name performers.
It's some guy named Losander, I don't know if you've ever heard of him.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Never heard of him.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Some woman named Juliana Chin.
Anybody, Anyone that.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: She seems pretty important.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And then some, some Jonathan Levitt guy and some lady named Suzanne and then never this other named guy named Nick the Font and I don't know, a bunch of people I've never heard of and I really don't know if they're going to go anywhere.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Well, I hope you're okay. I hope you're going to be okay slumming it with those guys.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. No, it's, it's. I think I'm, it's. I'm pretty sure I, I'm a I. In the palace show especially. I am, I am the, the not so not so great meat and in a very huge, luxurious career sandwich.
They're. Those guys are legends, obviously.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Yeah. There's not, there's not one person I haven't heard of in there and well.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: I mean, scratch everybody, like, just like Mayhew is also Chris Mahaly. I don't know if you've seen him. He's really great. He's in late close up. Javi Ben is who's been on Fool Us and does amazing stuff. He's, he's. This is the second week he was a close up. This week he's in the far. So. Yeah. And then these guys, these are the, this is the, these are guys who are former juniors who are great.
Craig Holzbrook and Mark Bennett and they both are guys that are Doing ships and stuff too and they're great. So yeah, no, it's a, full of, full of heavy hitters.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: What does hosting consist of rather than performing?
[00:02:13] Speaker B: I mean I'm still doing a slot but like you have the, if you're just doing your show. Like if I was to go and do a show on a cruise line, right, just be me, maybe one other act and I would just go and I would do my time and it would be my stand up material. Right, because the one thing you didn't mention in your intro is that like I really don't do as much of the close up card stuff anymore. All I, 11 years ago I sort of moved all of my focus to being a standup magician and I work on Disney Cruise Line and that's where I really, I tour my own show and you know, corporate events, things like that. But for the most part, Disney Cruise Line and that's what I do.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: I was just going off of Lucifer. What?
[00:02:49] Speaker B: What?
[00:02:50] Speaker A: Yeah, if the devil sells something, you devil said that.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Yes, that's true. But then yeah, that happened after I went through that decided to do that. But anyway, so I've been doing that and then so I was to go do my show, I would just do my show. Like I said, it's an organized, threaded bearing show. It's the stuff I talk about in my book and stuff. But when you hosting, you're doing a slot in a variety show, you're also bringing on and off the other acts. And because I fully recognize that of the three acts that are there, I shouldn't be closing that show, I shouldn't be opening that show. I should just be the thread that glues it together and let it be a. And let these guys cook because they're, you know, who they are. I'm going to be the one who's going to go out immediately, grab the attention, welcome people in, get them all on my side and then say, I have an amazing treat for you. Please welcome Losander. Right? And then, then I'm going to come out, I'm going to kill some time in front of the curtain while we get rid of Los Angeles stuff and Juliana puts her stuff up and then I will do my, you know, my stuff. And then immediately then say, guys, I have another treat for you. Please welcome Juliana Chen. And then Juliana Chen will do her thing and it'll be amazing. And then I bring all back out at the bow and that's it. So I'm really there just to facilitate the show. I will do like a 15 minute slot in the middle of my material. But it is not like when I do a real show these days. So it's much less work and much more work at the same time.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: Because when you're hosting a show, you are really the one who has to keep the energy up to keep the momentum going. You're dealing with everything else with the crowd. You know, I want to make sure the other acts are shining, they're feeling good, that I'm saying the introductions. They want me to say, that I'm representing them in the light they want. I'm bringing them on and off in a timely manner. I'm not vamping in the middle of my set doing 25 minutes when I should only be doing 15. You know, stuff like that. Like, you really are far more on the clock because other people are depending on you as opposed to if you're on your own show, which, again, I'd be doing more time. It'd be a longer form time. But I'm really on my time. It's what I'm doing. I'm. The only person I'm answering to is me. And that's a. So, yeah, it's harder and easier at the same time.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: Awesome. All right, we're gonna. We're gonna take a step back to your. Your beginnings. We'll start with a couple. Couple questions from which you have to ask every.
Do you remember the first moment that magic really hooked you?
[00:05:22] Speaker B: So I always. It's three. It's three distinct moments of my life, and one was when I first saw my first magician, Sam's name, Dan Stapleton, who still performs.
He did a show at Circus World, which is a theme park that doesn't. No longer exist in Haines City, Florida. And I saw him put a. You know, put a woman in a box and cut her in half. I thought that was the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my entire life. And so the magic bug bit then, but I was very much more casual with it. And then I. Because at that, my mind magic was big boxes, girls getting in boxes. That's all I could see what magic was.
And then I saw a guy at Sea World. Notice the theme park stuff here.
I saw a man at SeaWorld do a show. There was a medicine show, sort of like pitchman show, where he did magic, but in a very comedic style.
Whoa. What is this? So now I'm even more intrigued. And I. When I saw that show so many times, like, there were days where I would go and watch every single show, like, because we had annual passes and we would just go and. And we'd do that. And I watch every single show in the day. And so I would say he was with the second sort of entrance in, so the door is getting a little wider. And then when I was 14, I saw a guy named Terry Ward do a street show.
Cards and coins, cups and balls. Actually more like a Benson bowl type thing. But he would do that, all the people surrounding him, comedic style, magic, right in your face. And I went, that's what I want to do for the rest of my life. And so I had already been interested in magic, but this is where it really sort of kicked into me. And I was lucky enough that that man became my mentor and like a father to me. And he is still someone I speak to very, very, very often today. And yeah, that's sort of. That started me down the path I am in right now.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: That's amazing. And according to your bio, at 20 years old, you were basically performing at Disney World.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: Yeah. How many other show at Epcot?
[00:07:20] Speaker A: I am a huge Disney fanatic.
So you're still in the Disney, obviously, because you do Disney cruises as well. How did you end up in that role?
[00:07:28] Speaker B: The original show? When I was 20, yeah. Yeah, I practiced very hard. I sort of worked on my stuff when I was a kid and I was really constantly doing it. And I think I had other gigs that were very influential of that. I had like a restaurant gigs and things like that where I would do just constantly doing magic. And they needed somebody to do. They wanted to have a close up magician who was in the pub who was sort of. Who'd be able to be an, you know, an actor, rogue type person and be able to do magic in that format. And they originally offered it to Terry and Terry was like, I don't really want to do this, but I got the guy. I know the guy, me and. Cause I had already. Because of Terry, I'd gone to performing arts camps and high school. I was really involved in things like theater. Like he really was like, I'm gonna teach you some tricks, but we're gonna learn how to make. How this is gonna make you a performer. We're gonna make you a performer. And that was really important and to him and to me. And so like when I was able to then go in and do a fake British accent and pretend like I could do this stuff and it was great. And the story that I tell about that gig is that I back.
It's still back when I was doing the show. I really only Just wanted to do card tricks. I just wanted to do card magic. That's all I wanted to do was card tricks. And so I came up with a show because they had said, I had heard they really wanted to be very environmental. So I came up with a show with magic, with using stuff from the pub, the beer mats and different jiggers and different things from around the pub and all that stuff. And I did that set for that audition and they loved it and they gave me the job and I never did any of that stuff ever again. And all I did was card tricks for the five years that I did that show.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: I love that.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: That's a. That's a fact.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: That's. So you're at the. In the British. The British part of. Of Epcot the Rose. Epcot's my favorite.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: I can't. You can't see it on here right now, but I have a. I have a. My walls are full of, like, little things of my history. And then one of them is that a really beautiful drawing of the Rosencan Pub where I would say that my time at Disney and because of that gig is the reason I am as good as I am, you know, without sounding too braggarty, because I spent all that time underneath the tutelage of both my mentor and then other performers who were very seasoned performers of different disciplines. Jugglers, stand up comics, improv people, you know, mimes, clowns, whatever. And I. So I had all of these people giving me all this great focus because I performed not just my show at in the Pub, but I also would then fill in for whatever stuff that Terry couldn't do. And I would do other things around. I would do the Diamond Horseshoe where I started my first sort of walk, very small walk towards stand up magic, which we didn't click in until much later on the. Doing a street show like Terry did, like the one I saw when I was a kid. All these things were really just sort of. I was able to then build all different types of shows with different characters. Like, I did a. I did a. You could rent out the Haunted Mansion and we would do a fake comedy seance.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: That sounds so cool.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And so it had like, you know, magic and some effects in it. For the most part, though, it was really just played tongue in Cheek and Disney would do that for corporate events. And then I did like a riverboat gambler character at, like, High Points, you know, and I would literally, like. My job was to ride the Lily Bell because here it's the Mark Twain, there it's Lily Belleville, that's no longer there. I don't know if, you know, they just drain the whole lick. But I, I would ride the Lily Bell and do, and do three card money and endless chain and stuff. And that was my job. That's insane.
So yeah, I got to relive some of that later. Way later on. A couple of years ago at the Disneyland. They needed, they needed some fill in for what? Because it was. They were getting rid of the old diamond horseshoe, sorry, Golden Horseshoe show and changing it for another golden Horseshoe show. And. And so they had a bunch of performers, myself and Greg Wilson, not Gregory Wilson, but Greg Wilson, son of Mark Wilson.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: I got it.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Johnny Ace Palmer and a few other people would do up at Brian Oshap. We would do like walk around sort of that type of magic. And we would, we were told like, you know, elite, this set ride riverboat and this set hang out here in front of the, you know, in front of. It was awesome. Like I would gather a crowd and do all that old stuff again, which was fun.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: So fun.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Walk down that memory lane.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: You've said comedy magic a few times and I think that that term is for some people. They say comedy magic and they don't even have a joke. But like they're just, they're just sometimes just being mean. What does it mean to be a comedy magician versus here?
[00:12:00] Speaker B: All right, well, buckle up.
I personally, I realize that is a term that is easier for me to explain quickly what I would get across. Like if someone was to say quickly explain your show, I would say it's a comedy magic show.
But I don't like to use that term. And I, I have, I have removed it from any of my promotional material. I do not. All my material says my name or magician boat. Like that's it. Like even on Disney. All most of the other acts are, are usually labeled as the comedy and magic of blank or the comedy and juggling of blank. And I convinced them that like don't do that. Just say John Armstrong, magician. And it's really worked really well for me because then they go in expecting a magic show and when they find out how funny I am, because if I do say so myself, I am pretty humorous. I. That's a bonus to them. That's a surprise. They, they're like, whoa, what's going on here? And I think that's so great. As opposed to going in expecting something and letting that implicate, letting that expectation go down here, I'm giving them a bonus of something that they didn't expect they were going to. To see.
And so I always classify myself as just a magician. There's a quote. It's not by me, but it. I think it's my close. And he would say usually that come magic as neither. Because a lot of the time. And there are exceptions to this. Of course, there are people right now at the Magic Castle tonight who are great exceptions to this. Nick Defot, Matt King. But they. But for the most part, a good amount is sometimes comedy magic becomes like a bunch of Hackney jokes and. And. And ha. And not very good situations and then a little. Little trick, and then that's not that impressive to begin with.
And so my goal was always to not do that. To do magic as strong as I possibly could, but create situations around it that were as ridiculous as possible. Most of my humor in my show does not come from me spouting jokes or lines. It comes from the actual situations that are brought upon by the effects. So everything is happening in the moment, and it's not. It's very hard to quote individual jokes in my show because things that I say that will get a laugh make no sense outside of the context of what's going on. And I really like that. That makes the show happening and it makes it feel like it's. It's. It's unique experience and not just something that I'm saying the same things over and over again every single show.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And I've noticed your. That your style is pretty unique.
When I looked at what I could find from, you know, your penguin.
Penguin lecture, which was awesome.
I think I have, like, every penguin lecture that's been made, I. I almost have to describe it as. And. And I could be wrong. Like, almost like a laissez faire attitude. Like you're indifferent how insane the magic that's happening is.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: And I love that. What is. Would you say that that's a fair representation of your Persona?
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I. It was Scott Neary, actually, who. Who said that. Like, here's John Armstrong, the magician who doesn't care. And. And. And I do care. I care a lot. I think I have to care at the level that I care to make it seem as though I don't care. Yes.
And. And that's kind of where it comes from. You know, it's just that, like, I.
I have very dis. Because I'm a comic book guy. I have very distinct ideas about what my power set is and what I can do and what I can't do. And I want to be defined. Defined by all of that, like, I don't like to be like, a hodgepodge of just whatever I bought at the magic store that day. Like, I want to make sure that, like, that everything that I'm doing is supporting this character. And the character, essentially, if I was to describe it, is just me. It's a small C character. It's not a capital C character. I'm not, you know, I'm not Rob Zabrecki. I'm not, you know, I'm not doing something where, like, it's a really deep, deep, deep type of character. What I'm doing is I'm just taking the best parts of myself and putting those forward and amplifying them in a. In a. In a funny way that essentially my power set is that I'm just really clever. And I. If I can. If I can find a way to clever myself out of a situation, I will do it. And that's. That's where I am with most things. I'm a skeptic. I don't really.
I'm not a. I'm not a big spiritual person. And so because of that, like, I love saying. I love being very open about, like, how I do things are that I'm. I'm just tricking you, but I'm doing. I'm setting up a bunch of things that's going to make it look like I can do magic. Like, I literally will say things like that. There's a whole premise in my Disney show, my Disney show for families where I literally say, so this is a fake. Fake. My reading trick where I make it seem like I can read your mind.
I can literally start that as my premise.
So I want. I'm talk. So I'm without. With one sentence, I explain process. Without. With never again having to do explaining process.
Right? I never then have to go, and now I'm going to read your tells. No, I don't do that. Like, I just. I. Then I just do it. But I've set up this whole thing of saying, oh, this is fake. I just set it up so that made it looks like I do it.
So I personally, again, I want the human to be a surprise. I want people to.
To walk out of the show feeling like they mattered, right? Like, that show is the most unique show that's ever happened before and that if they were not there, that show would not have happened the same way.
Because I think that right there is the one thing we have, the last thing we have that these little machines don't have. And I think we can that's the live performance and experiential experiences are, we have to emphasize that. And that's where, kind of where I am with everything I do nowadays.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: That's fantastic.
I was wondering if you could talk, talk us through a little bit of your creative process. Like how an idea goes from the spark of something that you put in to, from the spark to something you put in front of the on. It's the Tiny Plunger for example, which is maybe has a bigger, a bigger title than you.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah, no maybe. There's no maybe about it. Like I'm on, on, on my tombstone it will say here lies the guy that came up with Tiny Plunger.
Like I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not stupid. Like I'm sitting in, I'm sitting in a, in a home that like is paid for by tiny Plunger. You know, like I'm not, I'm not. I still do it. Like I, it is even though when I went into my doing up and designing the shows that I do now in most standup shows that I do, as long as I have a camera and screen and a way to do it, I still do that trick. It is the only trick that I still, that is a close up trick that I, I, I continually will do and, and you know, and amplify and advertise.
It's on the poster, that type of thing. Right.
Because it is, it is such a big part of me. And so the, the history of that with me is that I, I go to comic book conventions and you know, as you may or may not know, in the last 25 years those, those comic book conventions have become less comic book conventions and more just general pop culture conventions. Yeah.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: And you were at Dragon Con recently? Is that what you did?
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I do, I do a show at Dragon Con every last five or six years. Maybe this is five. I've done a show at Dragon Con every year.
[00:19:23] Speaker A: So cool.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: And it's really cool. And I, I, I've worked with this year was Brian Brushwood, this guy named Kurt Anderson who's really awesome. And, and then Jimmy and Swiss Swiss has done it as well with me. And it's fun. I get to get to do geek stuff for geeks with being a geek and it's super fun.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Well, you mean there's, there's Strahd right there.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: I know. Look at, you got, you got your stuff there. You got your warhammer. Like I'm looking out your, yeah. Your D and D manuals.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'VE I've, I've got all, you know. Yeah, I've got the, the best Primark right here.
So, yeah, we're, we're good to go.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: So, yeah, and those guys, the dragon hunting guys, I mean, they're just hardcore. It's, it's amazing. And my wife loves it. It's, it's a, and we've been bringing our kid now, and it's awesome. We have a good time. But the point is that I, when I was at one of these shows where I would normally just go through bins of comics, now they have everything. And I saw this suction cup, little plunger thing that was part of a Super Mario Brothers, you know, Nintendo fan thing with all these, like, merchandise from Japan. And I went, wait a minute. And I immediately just started playing around with it. And before that, I'd always been really interested in a trick called guess your weight, which is a Bob King trick, where you've seen the premise where someone names a number and you cut that number of cards, where the magician, you know, showing how skilled you are with cards, you can cut exactly the same number and ways to fake that ability. And I was really interested in that. Never found a way to make that work for me. And then when I found the plunger, I came up with this whole thing, realized that I had sort of rediscovered something that was an apocalypse, which was called impromptu, Impromptu magnetic cards and. Right, right, right. And, and also an idea of Matthew Bish, the, the French genius, Matthew beach, who's amazing. And, and so when I came together with my routine and how it all built together when we put it out as a product, we went to Matthew and we talked about the whole thing and we sort of came together as a, as a team on it.
And then he has, he has ideas that are great. And the thing we did with Teno, like my, my, my tenure box, my picture on a tenure box is right over there. Me and Matthews pictured next to each other gimmick that he came up with to make it a Teno trick, which is basically a kind of a breather crimp type sticker thing was amazing. Anyway, not what I do with it, but what he did with it. And that's the product came out. And I still do my routine. The way that, the way that I did it all the time, I did on fool us and so on and so forth.
[00:22:00] Speaker A: And it's such a good routine. Yeah.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: So the genesis of that is just like seeing something and then relating it to something else. I, I, my normal process now Especially because all I really focus on for the most part is stand up stuff, is trying to relate parts of myself, my life where I'm coming from, my viewpoints on things. Nothing too heavy but like just general viewpoints and. And then writing stuff about that. Writing situations I would like to put people in and then finding material where I can create magic around that or find existing tricks that I can then retool to fit in that state. Most people buy tricks and then do the presentation. I have a tendency to come up with the presentations all the way first and then.
And my wife hates this. But then buy everything on the planet to see what I can make fit my presentation.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: So it is awesome.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: It is the. It is definitely the more expensive way to go about it. But I do. But like the stuff that I do now, like the premise. The thing that I love the most. One of the. Is this routine I do with a ring and a tie where I take off my tie and I do a ring and rope routine with the tie. And then at the end of the ring and rope routine, I take off the knot and it changes to a bow tie. And I wear that the rest of the show.
And the whole. Thanks man. And the whole thing is related about a real story, a real story where I didn't realize that a bow tie was its own special type of tie. I thought you just took a regular tie and you just tied it it a special way and that became a bow tie.
And so I. There was a whole day where I was trying to do this and make it into a bow tie. And then someone. And then someone was like, what are you doing? And like. And then that was. That's a real story.
And I wanted to talk about my journey to the West. I grew up in Orlando and now I live in Los Angeles. And why I moved out there, which is because of the Magic Castle. And what was the Magic Castle known for? Its dress code. And I had all these things that I wanted to talk about and then that. Then I. There's a rope routine that, you know, there's ring of rope routines, David Williams's routine, and a few other different ring of rope routines that are out there. And I was like, if I did that with a tie that would make more sense, you know, because the rope doesn't make any sense. And that's where it all came from for me. So like again, it's starting with the premise of what I want to talk about and then finding the material and building it around it from there.
[00:24:23] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: What.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: What drew you to Doing cruise ships, money.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: I mean, I'm not going to say it's because I've always wanted to be at sea. I mean, you know, I'm not a pirate. I mean, you know, like I. What drew me to cruise ships is that it is a market that seems to be resilient. And while everything else seems to have ebbs and flows for some reason, cruise ships are either steadily or building. And I knew I wanted to be a standup magician, that I wanted to.
Long story short, about 11 so years ago I decided that I could not handle being a close up walk around magician anymore.
Not that I don't do it at all, I still do it. If someone hires me, I'll do it. But the fact that I was doing it all the time and doing these long walk around gigs where essentially they just became creative hiding exercises for me where I was like, how can I? Because I just got sick of proving myself every five minutes.
And so I was like, okay, what am I going to do? How am I going to do to really still do magic? And I also wanted the intellectual challenge of something different.
And so I thought I was going to, I put really put real energy into stand up magic. And you know, there's open mics and I live in Los Angeles, so I was open, I was at the Colony Magic Club's here and the Magic Castle's here. But they're not going to pay the kind of money that I'm going to be able to live on. So I needed to make sure that I could build up something that was actually going to be substantial. And I got very lucky. I met my now agent when I did this thing called Magic Castle at Sea where they would hire close up magicians to do magic on this particular cruise line that is no longer in a existence any longer. And I would do, I would do that. And I met him and he was like, if you can come up with what you do, if you could come up with a stage show, I could get you work for days. You would be never have to have to worry about work again if you could take what I saw in this room and make it into a stage show.
And so I was like, okay. And so I developed a lot of stuff, the ring and tie and things that like that into what became the show. And then I started working ships and very soon into that I realized that the luxury market was not something that I really wanted to be doing. It was very, a little too hoity toity for me. And I was about to exit. And then again, thank You. Thank you, Gary. My agent was like, hey, what about Disney? And I'm like, do you know anything about me? Why didn't we start with Disney?
Start with Disney, Geez. And so I ended up getting very lucky because this is very picky. And I got in with them and now they're essentially the only line I really work for. With a couple exceptions here or there. Some people who are willing to pay my rates, which are more expensive. And it's nice. And from that, I've been able to invest into shows that are becoming sort of where I'm going to build my sort of a touring show that goes to, like, performing arts centers. I do a little of that. You know, obviously corporate comes from that as well. And it's been good. So I can, you know, I have a. So really it was money. And I.
I'll be completely honest. It's. It's golden handcuffs. I have a beautiful daughter who I love very much. I have a beautiful wife who I love very much. And I can't always bring them with me because my wife has this career. She cares about what's going on.
And. And there's this weird tru. And like, now my kids in kindergarten, these truancy laws. I can't just pull her out whenever I feel like.
And so I miss them. And Disney is great. They're very wonderful when it comes to me bringing them with me, but I can't always do that. And so I am in a situation where I do my best to work as much as I can, but then spend as much as my time away from that as well. So I'm.
It's a nice thing. But the shows are great. Man, oh man, I love the shows and I feel. And I'm on a ship where I don't feel out of place. But the problem with the other ships were. Is I felt out of place.
The super luxury lines where you have to be in a tuxedo after 5 o', clock, I felt out of place there. But Disney, it's great. I'm like, where are my Disney stuff? I go see the new Disney movies that are in the Disney movie theater. I go hang out and talk to other guests who are all their fellow theme park nerds. And we talk about, oh, man, they're going to open Avengers campus like this.
You get into those little debates and it's. It's great. And then. So I love that.
But yeah, I also would like to be home with my family more often.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: What makes a Disney audience on a cruise ship a little different than your audience, like a family audience.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Well, I'm going to go so far as to say that not only are they different cruise ship audiences, they're just of different audiences, period.
Because here's the thing about a Disney audience. When it comes to magic on a Disney cruise ship, they are there to see magic. That's why they paid the big bucks. They want to see magic. So they didn't go to the show because that was the show that was, was on that night.
They're there to see a magic show. They literally planned their vacation, their holiday around. Well, this cruise has this magician on it because they want to see magic. Because in their minds it's Disney, it's magic, it goes together, what's, what we should be seeing.
And there's, and, and I am very lucky that I get to take advantage of that because even on land, if I'm doing a corporate event, they're not there to see magic, they're there to network. The last thing they want to see is magic. Right. I have to like bring them in to me. Right.
And it's the closest thing at anywhere else in my opinion to working the magic Castle. Because when you work, work the magic castle, those people are there to see magic. They found somebody to give them an invitation, fancy themselves up. They're paying hundreds of dollars for valet and food and booze and everything else. So they are there to see magic. They're excited for magic and they're. That the closest thing to that is these audiences on Disney Cruise Line. And I'm assuming now that they have these magic castle like on Princess Cruises as people there are also very interested seeing magic because they want to see go to a magic special place. But castle audiences, it's the closest thing you would ever have to a castle audience at sea. And the only difference is it's families. Right. So you have to be able to play to the 3 year old and the 103 year old you had to play to everybody.
[00:30:38] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:39] Speaker A: That makes. That sounds like that would be a little more complicated than.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: No, it is. It's tough. It's tough. Once they find people who can work and do what they want them to do, which is a very specialized things versus the rest of the cruise line industry, they will hold on to you and say please. You know, they, they're very, they're very good about that. I'm very lucky in that regard.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't think about that. That is, it's, you know, you're on stage and it's, it's you can't just make balloon animals for every kid. That's always a backup plan.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: No, it's a show. It's a show. It has to feel like a show. You have to be telling a story.
Needs. It needs to feel like, not like an assemblage of material. It needs to. And this is, you know, by the way, this should be for any show. This is not Disney show or not show. Every show should not be an assemblage of material. It needs to be like, here. Why are we here? Why do we care? Who are you? You know, all the things that Max Maven said, like in your first three seconds when you walk on stage, I need them to understand who I am, what I'm doing, and why should they care? And, and that's. That's important. And if you're, if you lose that thread right away and the rest of the time you're just like, I'll bring up a kid now and I'll do a trick with a kid. Here's a balloon animal. You send him down. Now I'll bring up a kid and I'll do a trick and here's a balloon.
You're washed away. They don't remember anything.
You're essentially a time killer. And I don't want to be a time killer. I want to be. I want to be something that is remembered as a prestige event that they spent because the majority of the people who take these cruises are families from the Midwest or wherever, you know, in the US They've saved all year. This is their one vacation.
And I want to make sure that those people feel like they've gotten something special for their hard earned dollar period.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Just letting that sink for a minute. That's. Yeah.
Well, if magic wasn't your life, and what would you be doing?
[00:32:33] Speaker B: I have no idea.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: Never even thought about it.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: The whole, the whole. If you were a magician, what would you do? I don't know, like, if I could be a performer. I don't know. Like, I mean, I'm in this weird thing where I perform because I could be me. I don't have to. I don't know if I'm a great actor.
I think when the acting I was always do what I was actually good at. Acting was just stuff that was very close to who I am, you know, and stand up comedy scares me, but I think maybe I would do some of that. But if, but if I couldn't be a performer, like, let's say I had to take performer off the table. I had no idea. Like I don't know what I'm. You know, sales. I don't know. Like, I mean, I am in. I am completely extroverted. I. I talk to people I want to. My daughter's the same way, and my wife is not, which is. Is awesome.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: That is crazy.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: So my daughter's, like, talking to everybody, and that's. She's got. She gets that from me. So it's. It's. But I. I personally, like, I have no idea, man. Like, I don't know. Maybe I'll just run a comic book shop. That'd be great. I'll just do that.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I could see that.
I could definitely see that.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: But there's no money in that either.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: No, that's.
Yeah, you just. The. The good news is you get the comics wholesale, but that's probably about it.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. That's. That's about it. Yeah. You're not gonna.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: Yeah. My mom owned a toy store when I was a little kid, and I didn't have that many more toys than any other kids because she had to actually sell the toys. So it's not as much fun as you think. A lot.
I have a question about TV consulting. You've done quite a bit of consulting for television, film?
[00:34:08] Speaker B: A little bit, yeah.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: How did you get into that?
[00:34:11] Speaker B: I live in Los Angeles and I hung out at the Magic Castle. And that's the answer. That is the answer to that question.
I.
Somebody saw me somewhere and asked if I would be able to do that. And then back then, you would have to go in in person. Nowadays you just send out a video of what you would have to, you know, what you're trying to mock up for them. And then you go. A person, you explain what they need based on whatever part of the script they give you. And then I would get the job. And because I would. I was able to do that. I have. I'm. I guess I'm creative enough to be able to do that. And what ends up happening then is that the production people move on to other projects and they tell two friends, and they two tell friends, and they two tell friends, two tell. They tell two friends and they. So on and so forth. And so then, like, you end up becoming, like on a Rolodex, hey, blah, blah, blah, said you can help us out with this. You know, what are your rates? Can you do that? And then that's how it worked out. And because of that, I've been able to do some interesting stuff. And it's. It's been fun. It's Been fun. The Mentalist stuff was probably. I worked on the Mentalist for quite a few years and did a lot of. Not only consulting for them, but whenever you saw him doing any kind of like shuffling or card springing or three card money, these hands right here.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:35:26] Speaker B: So I did a lot of hand doubling for that and I've done other hand doubling for other actors and other. At other times shows like Las Vegas, where there was a dealer that was like, like supposed to be doing sleight of hand and I would have to do. Do that. I've had. I've had to shave my hands down completely and like with special makeup and then put nails on to be a woman's hands, which, I mean, my hands do not look like woman's hands, but they did at the long shot enough for me to be able to do the spread and so on and so forth. So, I mean, I've done stuff like that and. And then consulting for theme parks and theatrical productions and yeah, it's been cool.
[00:36:00] Speaker A: Sorry, that was the dog again.
[00:36:02] Speaker B: Sorry.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: Was that was. Was that your handiwork that I saw in ant man 2 with the cards?
[00:36:10] Speaker B: No. So Blake Voight.
[00:36:14] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: Blake Voight was the magic consultant for.
So this is very true.
When Ant man, the original Ant man was being directed by English guy. Oh my gosh, Edgar Wright.
I was brought in to work on that script because he was more the Paul Rudd character. The Scott Lane character was more of a rogue and did more.
Did more stuff and there was bits in there and we had. And he was at one point like, he was like in an ice cream truck and he did like stuff. Anyway, it was. There was all these things in that script.
You may or may not know that then that he then had clashes with Marvel because Marvel wanted him to put more stuff related to the mcu. He didn't want to do that. And then he left the project and then a new writer took over and then that whole script was not. The script that is in. That was actually shot is only like in idea based what the eventual product became.
So I had nothing to do with that. But I still have a credit working on Ant man because I worked on that project.
But that was the first one and in the second one I had zero to do with. And it has everything to do with Blake Floyd. And Blake Floyd, who I don't know if you know as a genius. And that guy, he did that. Yeah. So that's all Blake Flight. So that's the weird confusion there is that I did actually Work on stuff for the. For the first movie that never really made it. And then he. And then I have pictures of me and Edgar Wright to prove it. I don't know.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: That's so cool.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: But that's. That's. That's all I know about that.
[00:37:46] Speaker A: Lucifer, you are canon in the DC universe for being one of the greatest card magicians on the planet.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: Because Lucifer says that in the Magic Castle episode in the Netflix series of Lucifer. Yeah, he goes to the Magic Castle, and it should. He literally says my name and the camera pans to me. Me doing the tiny plunger, as a matter of fact. So, yeah.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: When that comes out, does that have to be vetted by, like, people in the dc? Like, oh, great, now we gotta write that down.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: Well, all I know is that the. The writer who wrote it may or may not be a very good friend of mine and was able to push that through.
Could. And he rode that thing into the very end. And here's this.
Because we shot that, like, in the. The heart of the lockdown. Like, it was still Covid times.
And there was a. I might have not have been able to do it. There was a. There was a conflict.
And we.
They literally, he was like, I'm going to put you on tv, where a guy is going to say your name. You have to be there. And I'm like, but I'm going to lose out on money. We need the money. It's Covid times.
So it turned out that it worked out. Like, we were able to make it all work out scheduling wise. And I was there, and I'm very glad that I did, because it's a very, very cool cameo. One of these weird cameos. I have a cameo on the Office.
[00:39:09] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: You can't.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: Episode. Episode three, Episode two, Season three, the convention. Two guys go to a party in Michael Scott's room. I'm one of the two guys. I have no speaking role, no speaking lines. He introduces himself to me, shakes my hand. It calls me Arnie Risman, I think is the line that happened because I.
People saw me at the Magic Castle.
And now you may or may not know, but Larry Wilmore was consulting producer of the Office, and he is a magician and member of the board of Magic Castle. And he was like, hey, do you want to do this and hang out with me for the day? And I'm like, sure. And that's why I have this weird cameo on the Office.
[00:39:58] Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing.
[00:40:00] Speaker B: That's because of that. And then. And had the cameo on Arrested Development because I actually worked as the.
The consultant on a few of the episodes magic wise for them. So.
[00:40:10] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great. That is a great character study on sad magicians.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. The job stuff. Yeah.
[00:40:19] Speaker A: I've made a terrible mistake, so. All right, you ready for the. You ready for the rapid fire round?
[00:40:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Great. Rapid fire.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: All right, Rabbit's fire. What's your favorite go to snack before or after a show?
[00:40:32] Speaker B: Ooh, grapes.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: If you could perform for any historical figure, who would it be and what trick would you show them?
[00:40:38] Speaker B: Walt Disney, and I would show them the Italian plunger.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: So good. What's one trick you wish you had invented?
[00:40:43] Speaker B: Man, there's so many. Man. You know what? I'm gonna go with I wish I created Hole in One, which is the. I have a routine with it, but I wish I created the mechanism that. That allows you to make the ball vanish from the tray and then appear underneath the glass in the shot glass, which is a Abbott's trick, I believe. And I have a routine with it that I. Very proud of, that I do. But I wish I created the actual mechanism itself because I pretend like I do in my routine. But I would love to be able to say that I actually did that because, man, that thing is genius.
[00:41:20] Speaker A: And when you're not doing magic, what's your favorite way to unwind reading comics.
Fantastic. What's your favorite comic right now?
[00:41:29] Speaker B: I really love the Mark Waid Justice League Unlimited. And I really love the.
The new run of the Outsiders, where they're like science heroes. It's really, really cool. Okay. Yeah, it's less about fighting crime and more about, like, trying to figure out weird anomalies like. Like, remember this TV show, Fringe?
[00:41:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I love Fringe. I was just thinking about rewatching the other day.
[00:41:51] Speaker B: They were trying to figure out weird anomalies with the space time continuum and. Okay, yeah, yeah, it's really. It's super great. I really, indeed.
[00:41:58] Speaker A: That Fringe was very underrated.
[00:42:02] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: In my opinion. It was. It's so good.
All right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna read an outro, and then we'll be. We'll be done with the recording part.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: I love it. Great.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: All right. This has been an absolute amazing treat.
Thank you for sharing your stories, insights, and your passion for magic. I think people are gonna come away with not just being amazed by your career, but also inspired by the way you approach both performance and creativity. For those who want to keep up with your work, where can they find you?
[00:42:31] Speaker B: I am on Instagram @johnjon no Hs J O N Armstrongmagic. So John Armstrongmagic@ Instagram, also on Facebook.
But I'm trying to get lots of Instagram followers follow me on Instagram.
[00:42:45] Speaker A: His Instagram's really good.
[00:42:47] Speaker B: And if you go to Wiz, you could go to my website cardjohn.com, that's where you'd be able to buy the book how to Win, which is my book about stand up magic and, and it has material in it, but it's really about my approach that I think is unique. And then you can also buy some of the material that I have including my, my masterclass for Vanishing Inc. And the ring and tie thing.
[00:43:05] Speaker A: Also very good. The Vanishing Ink masterclasses are really good and not just because I host a private podcast for Vanishing Inc.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: Okay, you, you, you host a podcast for Vanishing Inc. Yeah, I.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: There it's a, it's a members only podcast for masterclass called Masterclass Moments.
So they have a couple more it there. There they will be. There's four of them and we're. They're waiting for a new. Some new employees to come on. So then we may do more. But it's basically a half an hour version of their big, of their big master class. So I love their master classes. I think they're really great value for what you get. You, you guys, when you guys go on there, you really give like your best stuff.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: So I really, I like the format. It's. It's basically the book in video form.
[00:43:50] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: If you. The book is a very good companion for the masterclass and vice versa. So if you.
[00:43:55] Speaker A: I like having that. I like having books because it doesn't give me an idea of the, the, the routining so I can kind of take the trick and make it my own. So. John Armstrong, thank you so much for joining me on the Magicians Workshop and for anyone listening, please like comment and subscribe so you don' Miss any of these magical stories. Thanks again for watching and remember that magic starts with a story and we will see you next time.
