Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I'm Dr. Todd. And I'm Justin Purcell and this is Magician's Workshop.
Justin Purcell is a Chicago based magician renowned for his sharp wit, sleight of hand mastery and deadpan comedic flair. A founding member of the Chicago Magic Lounge, he headlines the acclaimed show and honest living, blending classic illusions with absurdist humor to create uniquely engaging experience beyond the page, beyond the stage. Purcell is also a drummer in the feminist punk band the Cell Phones and has honed his improvisational skills at both the IO Training center and the Second City Conservatories. Justin, welcome to Magician's Workshop.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Nice. Okay, thank you for having me.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Absolutely. What is up? You're a founding ensemble member and resident performer the Chicago Magic Lounge. How did that opportunity come about?
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Well, I started. I'd heard about it from somebody, I can't remember, but somebody who'd seen me. They're like, oh, have you.
They're doing magic up in Andersonville or. No, this was back when it was Uptown. Up in Uptown by the Green Mill. They're doing this magic show.
You should check it out. So I just went there and I saw online they were, they were doing like, like an open mic after. So I was like, okay, I'll go up there and maybe do a trick at the open mic.
So, yeah, it was. And it was pretty cool. It was fun. And when I did the open mic, Joey the who was the impresario of it, you know, and the host, he.
I don't know, he liked my routine. I did, I guess, in the open mic.
We've been kind of friends ever since, you know.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: So how, how often are you there?
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Well, now I'm there. It depends on the week. But yeah, I'm there three to five days a week.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Wow. And you do, you do. What part do you do? The bar. The bar shows in the, in the. When people walk in. Or you do.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: I'm just sort of one of their.
I can do. I do any of the showrooms, so just whatever they need. What I mainly do, I would say tables. Like the tables before the show.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Okay. Like page.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Exactly. That. That's sort of like my default position.
But then, you know, like next week here I'm doing. I'm headlining the stage show, so.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Oh, perfect.
When you headline, do you do like a month or do you do like just like at random?
Okay.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Do you.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Like a whole week?
[00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
[00:02:53] Speaker A: How would you say that the Lounge has evolved since it's opened? Is it kind of the same as it was or has it Gotten. Is it different than it used to be?
[00:03:01] Speaker B: Well, I think it's, you know, at first it was just us, like us Chicago people, and now it's just kind of like a destination for magicians from all over, you know, so I think it's kind of, I think it's broadened in a way, you know, and I, you know, but I think it still maintains some personality. But yeah, it's definitely more like, you know, people from all over come and perform at it. So depending on the week, you know, the act might be more, more Vegasy or more, you know, cruise ship style or something. You know, I think we get talent from all over, so.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: So you never know. You never know what you're going to see.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah, so, but, but in the sense though it's, it's always commercial. So I think it's, I think it's a very polished kind of show, you know, and we've been doing a long time.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: So.
Did you, did you grow up in Chicago?
[00:04:03] Speaker B: I grew up in Indiana, so I moved to Chicago after college.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: When did you first get into magic?
[00:04:11] Speaker B: I think like anybody, I was like magic sets and stuff when I was a kid. You know, tricks, you get those, what were they called? The little American Teno ones.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the classics.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: And then, yeah, and then, yeah, I don't know, around when I was in high school, I started going to a magic store like in Indianapolis called Best Fun Entertainment.
And so, yeah, I used to spend my paycheck from Wendy's at buying various, you know, magic tricks.
So, yeah, that's when I got more into it, I guess, you know, and then once I went to college, it was like a good icebreaker, you know, I'd only worked a couple gigs. But.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: When did you decide to go? When did you decide that?
When it changed and you said, this is what I'm going to do professionally, was there any moment?
[00:05:15] Speaker B: It's just, it was, I would say it was like a long flow build up.
It's sort of like the exclusion of other activities, like the filtering down, you know. I was always liked playing music and doing comedy and all this kind of stuff, you know, different creative pursuits. But yeah, it just sort of turned out magic was the most commercial of them. So that was the one that would, where I would get the most gigs. And it kept me getting more and more gigs from it until eventually I could do it full time. But yeah, it was definitely like a slow, slow build up. I mean, the first time I made any money at it was when I was maybe 18. And the, the magic store asked me if, if I wanted to go out on a gig. Basically. Like they, they had booked some corporate gig and they needed somebody to fill in. They're like, you're good at sleight of hand. You come and just do this gig for us, you know, we'll give you 150 bucks or whatever, you know. I was like, whoa, it's a lot more than Wendy's.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: I was about to say, yeah, 18 and working fast food. That's amazing.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Yeah, so, so, yeah, but you know, that was then. It was just kind of gigs here and there for a long time. And I worked in retail for many years, so that was the thing. I never wanted to commit to like a career. I just wanted to do something creative. So magic was like the most creative thing that ended up making me money. So it kind of found me.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Wow. How did you go from Indiana to Chicago?
[00:06:50] Speaker B: I just moved up here. I mean, it was mainly because of the improv, you know, because I was doing improv all through college and I was like, oh, I kind of want to keep doing improv, so I'll go to Chicago. Maybe I can, you know, get on a team at IO or do Second City or something.
Once you get up here, you realize how competitive that is. You're just like, oh man, there's a lot.
All the funniest people from their comedy troops all moved here to do this, you know, so you're just like. And, and nobody's making any money, like at all. Like, none of them are being paid. So you're just like, whoa, this is very competitive.
So that's sort of how I fell back into doing more magic. Because it was like, yeah, I could do birthday parties and do gigs, you know, doing that.
[00:07:31] Speaker A: I mean, how, how competitive is the Chicago market for magic? Because, I mean, it's kind of a, I mean, it's kind of a legendary close up magic spot. It's less competitive than, than, than acting. But like, did you find that there's demand for magic?
[00:07:49] Speaker B: You know, because magic is, it's just this, you know, it's a commercial thing. It's like, you know, it's a, it's a skill. And there's not that many people that can. I mean, yeah, there's not that many skilled people that can.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a lot of people that do it, but not a lot of people that do it.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: Well, yeah, like, you know, a lot of people can do a couple tricks, but yeah, that if you can go in and entertain people for an hour, you know.
So yeah, I would say, you know, there's definitely, yeah, you don't really feel the competition. You feel like there's plenty of work for everyone because there's, there's always events and always things going on.
So yeah, I feel like the competition is more just to make sure to be good, you know, try and think of it that way, not like you're scrambling for jobs or whatever.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: And would you say that your main work is, is in close up? Do you do anything else? Like I don't see any doves or anything. Is it?
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Well, I mean, yeah, at the lounge. I mainly just do my stage show at the Magic Lounge.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Lounge.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: I mean I've done it. Like I'll do some platform stuff like.
But yeah, my, mainly what I do to make money is, you know, do walk around magic at corporate cocktail parties and that kind of stuff, you know, and you know, I'll do private events where, you know, I might do a few stand up tricks at the end or you know, do maybe 15 minutes, 20 minutes or half an hour. But yeah, as for an actual stage show, I mainly perform at the Chicago Magic Lounge. I'll be doing it at the, this convention coming up, the IBM convention. So that'll be interesting. Doing a stage show at that.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: Oh wow. That's more performing for magicians. Is that going to be, is that going to be a little bit different?
Because I've heard that performing for magicians you get different, you get laughs at different times and.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll see. I think it'll be fine. I, I, yeah, I don't know. I try not to.
Like Eugene Berger always said, you know, if you perform for magicians, just the, the secret is really to just treat them like layman. There's no, you don't want to try and tailor your act to magicians because, because, yeah, and whenever I fooled magicians really badly, it's, it's just when I was doing something I would just do for layman, it's not because I added something special for them. It's just the fact, you know, the fact that it's polished or something, it flies by or you know.
So yeah, I, so I, yeah, I mean you never know. They may not read, I don't know magicians like magic. That's the thing. Like, yeah, like I think you get in your head because you're like, oh, it's like at first you're like, oh, it's not going to fool them. They know how the trick works. But you, the more I do magic the more you have to kind of get past that feeling in general.
I mean, I think D. Vernon talked about just assuming.
Just assuming the audience knows how the trick works anyway. Like, you know, you. It shouldn't affect how you perform a magic trick if, you know.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like I've heard that quote before.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
To work as if, you know, you just try and present the trick well and whether they know how it works or not isn't really your concern. And most of the time it'll fool them because very few people actually study magic as much as.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's.
How often do you. How often do you practice or do you. At this point, is it so ingrained in you that you can. You can just go cold? Or do you spend time every day working on new stuff or what's your schedule look like when you're not performing?
[00:11:31] Speaker B: Well, I perform almost.
Yeah. Like every day. I mean, I perform most days of the week for sure, so I don't really. You don't really need to practice because you're already doing it every day. But I still practice a lot just because I enjoy. I like practicing almost as much as performing.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: So how often. How often do you add new material to your stage show? Or is it pretty much. Does it pretty much stay that. Stay the same?
[00:11:58] Speaker B: I try and always add something new, but, you know, adding to the stage show is slow going because it's like you add one piece, try it, and then maybe it doesn't work, so you have to add something else or.
But yeah, I feel like every time I try and a lot of it's refining, though, I just try and find a better, more efficient way to do the tricks I'm already doing to speed up the handling and stuff and the prop management.
That's the one.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Other than going to magic. Magic shops.
Did you. Where else do you find your material?
[00:12:38] Speaker B: I like to think about entertainer, like magicians who are. Who I feel like have a similar sensibility to me, and then I look through their published material.
Like, I like working. I like working practical kind of magicians who have broad repertoires. So like I like Al Baker and Charlie Miller and like Johnny Thompson and like these kind of like, you know, the. The guys who are. Who accumulated tons and tons of knowledge and they wrote a lot about it. So I usually just go through those kind of books because.
Because they've refined it so much, you know.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, those alone will keep you busy for forever without even having to go. Anyone new?
[00:13:27] Speaker B: Yeah, like the past.
I feel like the past year or Two, I've just been kind of going through Al Baker and trying different routines, like adding it to my stage show.
Just trying different Al Baker routines, stuff like that, you know.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: So speaking of your routining, I've heard that you have a very distinct style which is deadpan, clever, and a little absurd. How did. How did you develop that?
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Well, I think it's just my sense of humor. You know, I grew up watching, you know, ever since I could stay up late enough, watching Dave Letterman every night and Conan and stuff, and watching on those reruns of SNL where Norm MacDonald was doing the Weekend Update.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: And like, you know, watching kids in the hall, like. And stuff like that. So I just feel like that that sort of comedic sensibility has always kind of influenced me, and a lot of that is just sort of based, like, a dry approach to the absurd, you know, like, when you think of kids in the hall or this kind of stuff, they'll just do something. They just do it very committed, but it's just extremely absurd, you know?
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: So that's just sort of the. The approach to comedy that I like. And it's funny because I don't really think of my magic show as comedic other than the fact I am. I mean, I guess magic to me is broadly comedic.
Like, conceptually, it is sort of comedic. Like you're satirizing reality itself or something. You know, you're making fun of how people perceive things.
But, yeah, so to me, it's just more about, like, commitment to.
To the bit, commit, committing to magic. And, you know, the main reason I use the comedy is because I'm just trying to commit to the.
Actually the magic being real, you know.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: How did your improv training affect that? Does that. Does that come into play when you perform?
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Yeah, Like, I don't.
I don't like. I mean, I follow, like, a script in the sense of, like, beats, but I don't, you know, I try to speak extemporaneously and respond to what's happening in the room as opposed to, you know, going through a set routine. You know, like, I'll definitely change things around based on what's happening, and that's why I like Close up so much, is because you have a lot more leeway to. With card tricks and stuff, you can really jazz, as they say, you know, kind of go in a different direction. You can change the tricks based on how you feel.
But.
But really, I think it's just responding to what's what. How people are actually what they're saying and how they're responding just.
I think it's awfully important in live entertainment because that's the one thing you really have up on because they can watch.
You know, there's tiktoks of all the best manipulators in the world and, you know, all sorts of special effects and movies and stuff. So I think what really sets live entertainment apart for people is the fact that it's happening, you know, in reality right now, and you're responding to them. And that's what's fun about it for me.
[00:16:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I know the Chicago Magic Lounge, you get like what, three minutes at a table? Like, you don't get very long. So you gotta.
What's your. What's your philosophy on. Like, are you just gonna hit them with one really good trick? Are you gonna rapid fire and try to do as many kind of as many effects as you can in a minute?
[00:17:11] Speaker B: A lot of times I try and go as quick as I can and I try to interact with everyone.
Like, mean, oftentimes I'll just try and do like a card revelation for each person.
You know, like each person picks a card and I find it.
Like, I usually have them. I usually have them name. Just name card, like name a card and I'll find each of their cards in a different way or something.
Try and try and work pretty quick. But yeah, but then I. I don't know. Like, usually my. I have an opener that I do that that takes probably 30 seconds. Like, they name a card and I just find it right away.
And then.
So that usually gets our attention. And then I try.
Then I try and decide from there which.
Which routine with they would like the best, you know?
[00:18:04] Speaker A: Do you. Do you have a favorite that you like? Do you have a favorite that just. You personally like that if you.
That you never get tired of actually performing regardless of.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Yeah, like the trick Mnemonicosis by Juan Tamar is which is sort of like kind of like a trick that can't be explained sort of thing because there's an improv aspect to it, you know, so you.
You try to find the card. You try and invent the way to find the card in the moment, you know, So I. I always like doing that because it keeps you.
Keeps you on your toes and you can just. Just insane stuff will happen, you know, that you can't.
You know, that's totally inexplicable.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: So do. Do you use the Mnemonica stack? Is that.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: Oh, no, I use a different stack, but the trick works the same way.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I've been looking into what stacks I want to attempt and I, I think I'm just going to try the particle system first.
Oh. Just because I have the master class for it already. When you do corporate walk around, what's your setup?
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Like?
[00:19:14] Speaker A: What, what are you packing into your. Into your jacket?
[00:19:18] Speaker B: I always carry some rubber balls in my pocket so I can do the three ball track.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that on Penguin Magic. That looked really cool.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Yeah, because that one is good. Because if you run into a group that doesn't speak English very well or it's just you're in a loud part of the room where people can't really hear, you know, like they're having trouble hearing, like the instructions. They can just. It's so visual. You can kind of just do this thing and it always gets attention because it's up high.
So like you'll see like people looking over and being like, what's going on over there? It gets like, gets a lot of attention. Like it's kind of a big. I do it on stage as well. It tends to fill a lot of space for such a little space in your pocket. So you carry around those rubber balls.
And then I have like a keto box and some coins for just. For coin tricks.
And I mainly just do this one aikido box routine which I think I might explain in that watch, like the preview.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: And I was like, well, that's actually a really clever idea. That would, that definitely would sell it for me is the fact that it's a cool prop and I love when you take old props and make them part of it.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I sort of take David Roth's approach of calling attention to it to say it's a magic box, you know, and then you prove it.
The box itself can do magic in itself.
So I actually use it as a bit of. Yeah. Misdirection saying that the boxes.
I think it's sometimes fun to invest the magic into the prop.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: So. So yeah, yeah, the coins. So that's usually it. And then a deck of cards.
Usually if it's.
Usually I'll have two decks. Like, usually I'll have a stack deck and then like a shuffle deck. Lately at the lounge, I've been using two different stacks just to challenge myself because I'm always like trying to like. I don't know.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: That's a good, That's a good way to. To. That's a good way to challenge yourself.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So have been. I've been doing like different. Yeah. Tricks. But usually it would be a shuffled deck and a stack deck. So that way I can kind of switch, you know, do an ambitious card, and they can sign the card, keep it.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: I don't have that card missing from my deck or whatever.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: I have a little bit of kind of a behind the curtain of being a pro questions for you. Like, for example, what do you wish people understood about more? Which. What do you wish more people understood about being a professional magician?
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Oh, maybe just that it's sort of a hobby. It's a hobby. I think people just think of it as a hobby, but the fact that you have to spend. Yeah. Working on your material, but making contracts and getting money and I work hard, darn it.
I'm almost.
Sometimes I'm like, this is not that hard work.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: But how do you keep the work fresh and fun after performing, like, a hundred, hundreds of shows? I mean, because it has to be kind of exhausting to be on.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: For me, it's by just. Yeah. Trying new stuff and taking risks.
You know, I'm always trying to work at the edge of my ability, like, which is different than. I know a lot of professionals are safe, play it a lot safer than I do, which is probably smart for coming out, but I don't mind making some mistakes and trying to fix it and, I don't know, trying to keep it. Keep it exciting, basically for myself. Yeah.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: Can you remember a time where, like, the. You. You had, like, a really big.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: And you had to turn it around?
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Well, I mean, it happens every day.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: He's living on the edge.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: I always joke because that's like, that's the number one amateur question that people always ask you. Amateurs and people, they're always just like, man, have you ever messed up a trick? I'm like, I've messed up more tricks than you've attempted, you know?
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that's. That's the classic question last week.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: I've probably messed up more tricks than you've ever tried to do for anybody.
Yeah, I'm always kind of messing up, and I'm trying to think if there's any good stories to it.
Yeah, it's. It's just so numerous that. Yeah.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: I don't feel so bad then.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, a lot of things, you know, where things have gone completely wrong, but then the next trick goes really well, and hopefully they just forget the.
At the last point.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, what is. What. What is the weirdest.
What's the weirdest gig you've ever had?
[00:24:07] Speaker B: Some of the. Some of these events, places It'll just be like. It'll be like these weird themed. It was like.
Like, they're like, pretend you went to college with. They always like that. You like to pretend you're something else. And I'm like, this never that well, but I'm like, it was college themed. It was sort of like. Like an Animal House kind of like college.
And they had a bunch of improv actors, like, hired to, like, do this. And I don't understand what it really was. It's some sort of networking event or something. So there's a bunch of young professionals. But then there was a lot of people just, like, doing, like, snl. Like. Like, almost like characters and stuff.
People weren't sure if you were, like, a character or if you were like, somebody else, like, working with everyone else. So I don't know. It was fun. I still. I was just doing my card tricks.
Like, a marching band came in at the end. It was just, like, a lot of really strange stuff going on. They had, like, you know, like a bouncy house. I don't know. Just a lot of crazy people with a lot of money, and they put on these events, and you're like, do.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: They really have a bouncy house, though?
[00:25:22] Speaker B: They had, like, a bouncy house. They had, like, a game section. They're like, all right, now it's time for the games. And they had, like, a crazy bouncy house obstacle course. And then, like, that thing where you climb on a ladder. So people are, like, playing all these games. I'm like, what am I doing here? It's just, like, trying to go up to people, like, want to see a card trick.
We're trying to get to the bouncy house, you know.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Oh, that's awesome.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: A lot of weird events like that where there's just clearly too much money. They're just throwing. You're just. You're one of the many weird things. They also hired a marching band, so it's kind of like, okay.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: I wonder what the going rate is for a marching band. That is great. This is another one of those questions you hear all the time. But what advice would you give somebody who wants to actually pursue a career in magic?
[00:26:13] Speaker B: Well, I think magic is one of those things you do.
I think as long as you love doing magic, you can have a career in magic. And it can be any level, like you said. I mean, like, you were talking about acting. You can. I don't know, you can do a gig on the weekend here and there, or you can make it your Full time living.
I think it just comes down to how much time you want to devote to take. I guess part of it is taking the risk because I remember like when I quit having. Having a normal job and that was kind of.
Yeah, that was kind of the weird point. I think you just have to be interested in enough. In doing it where it's worth the.
Worth that initial. You know, it comes to a point where you're like, I like doing this enough to the exclusion of other, other activities.
I think. I don't think you. I, I guess I would put off. Yeah. Jumping in. Do it full time as long as you can.
I think that's good advice. Try and just do it. Do it on the weekends as much as you can.
But my problem was I just couldn't even focus on my job anymore. I just wanted to be doing, you know, when I was at my job, I was just shuffling cards, you know, trying to sneak off and practice. Like I didn't want to be doing.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: After seeing your. What. What do you want people. What do you hope people walk away with after seeing you perform?
[00:27:34] Speaker B: I do want them to think I, it was funny. I think, like, I don't really strive for.
To think that it was spontaneous and funny. I think it's like I said that live, like to feel like they saw, like Matt King talks about that too. He wants them to feel like that show that they saw was a unique show and it's not just like some canned thing, like, you know, like something crazy happened. You know, Matt King will do that thing where he fakes the signature, whatever.
[00:28:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: But people walk away from that saying, like, whoa, it was crazy. Someone signed the wrong side of the card. Or, you know, that's like an example of it. But just that sort of feeling. I want people to feel like they, they saw something unique and they had a, you know, a good time that existed in that particular, you know.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: Good answer. Justin, thank you so much for being on the show with us today.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: And that brings us to the end of magician's workshop. And if you like what you see, please, like comment and subscribe. Make sure that you check us out on YouTube so you can see us in glorious video and we will see you next time.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: Ra.
